Talk:Design/Meetings/2012-04-07

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    [12:00] == Maggie [62580ecd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.88.14.205] has joined #libreoffice-design
[12:00] <@eagles0513875_> hey Maggie
[12:00] <Maggie> Hi
[12:00] <alexanderW> hi
[12:01] <@eagles0513875_> working on getting my experimental android UI stuff into the main repo
[12:01] == IvanFilho [bb72ac5d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.114.172.93] has joined #libreoffice-design
[12:01] <Maggie> Yeah saw that on the mailing list
[12:01] <IvanFilho> Good afternoon! :)
[12:02] <@eagles0513875_> hey IvanFilho
[12:05] <Maggie> So what's on the agenda today?
[12:06] <@eagles0513875_> android UI is why i am here
[12:06] <@eagles0513875_> hehe
[12:06] <alexanderW> Dciding whether we'll apply the whiteboard template
[12:06] <alexanderW> And then go through each whiteboard
[12:08] <Maggie> I'm not sure what do with the website for the bug submission assistant
[12:08] <alexanderW> What's wrong with that?
[12:09] <Maggie> There's nothing wrong with it from what I can tell, but some of the choices for choosing your version of LO are rather confusing.
[12:10] <Maggie> Also, I'm not sure if the design team addresses this but I have relatives who use LO and they have been complaining about some things they have encountered while using Writer.
[12:11] <alexanderW> It's quite verbose, but I think that's neccessary to hunt down the bugs.
[12:12] <Maggie> So is the BSA more for developers/QA or is it for users?
[12:12] <alexanderW> If those issues are related to the GUI, we could probably come up with a whiteboard.
[12:13] <alexanderW> It's for both I think, but many users don't have a required Bugzilla account
[12:14] <Maggie> If they have to deal with where some options are located on the menu would that deal with the GUI?
[12:15] <Maggie> I would like to see if there was a way to have it auto-detect which version of LO the user was using when they submitted a bug. Not sure how tod it and it's probably out of the scope of the Design team anyways.
[12:16] <IvanFilho> I think there is no way to "auto-detect" this
[12:16] <@eagles0513875_> i have seen auto detect version included in linux bug traces at least when an app crashes in kubuntu and the back trace gets submitted then launchpad seems to automatically set the version and package in the bug report
[12:18] <alexanderW> AFAIK, there no such feature in LO
[12:18] <IvanFilho> What about Windows and Mac users? It's better put instructions in the page to the user to look at the "About" dialog...
[12:25] <Maggie> eagle, what language are you writing your prototype in?
[12:25] <@eagles0513875_> I'm using the native android sdk which is java
[12:25] <@eagles0513875_> i know what i need to do to fix it
[12:28] <alexanderW> Shall we discuss the whiteboards?
[12:28] <Maggie> Sure.
[12:29] == IvanFilho [bb72ac5d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.114.172.93] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[12:30] <alexanderW> Does anyone know how this read/write mode is supposed to work?
[12:30] <alexanderW> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Mirek2#Tentative_Whiteboard_Template
[12:33] <alexanderW> Ah, I guess thats just an example of mockups
[12:35] <@eagles0513875_> think I'm going to have to redo this project from source sadly :(
[12:35] <alexanderW> why?
[12:35] <@eagles0513875_> some how broke it
[12:36] <alexanderW> How much code did you already have?
[12:36] <@eagles0513875_> not much
[12:38] <alexanderW> Is there anything that'd need to be changed or added regarding this whiteboard template?
[12:43] <Maggie> Alexander, do you intend to have a section on your template for Use Cases?
[12:44] <alexanderW> Btw, it's not my template. Mirek added 'Personas', which would be equivalent to Use Cases
[12:48] <Maggie> I saw the Personas. Those looked more like user stories to me. I was thinking of a way to more formally show how each feature/requirement would work.
[12:56] <Maggie> I'm just waiting to see if there's going to be any more discussion about the white boards..
[12:56] <Maggie> Also, any more icons to be made
[12:57] == bbalazs [~bjoern@g230184064.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #libreoffice-design
[12:57] <bbalazs> Hi
[12:57] <bbalazs> I am too late for the meeting I guess :)
[12:58] <@eagles0513875_> bbalazs: nope we still in here discussing on and off
[13:00] <bbalazs> If there is any interest: I brought up the idea of user testing the icons - if there is any interest, I could drop some words about that
[13:00] == Mirek2 [d5dcf47d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.220.244.125] has joined #libreoffice-design
[13:01] <Mirek2> hi everyone
[13:01] <Mirek2> no discussion?
[13:01] <@eagles0513875_> Mirek2: there was a bit
[13:02] <Mirek2> has the chat officially ended?
[13:02] <Maggie> not sure; there was some discussion about the template for the white board
[13:02] <alexanderW> I'm back
[13:02] == astron1 [~cck@dslb-188-103-140-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #libreoffice-design
[13:02] <astron1> hi
[13:02] <alexanderW> hi
[13:03] <Mirek2> hey
[13:03] <@eagles0513875_> redoing it this time with a new directory in the android directory in core
[13:04] <astron1> where are we?
[13:04] <Mirek2> so the topic is the android home screen?
[13:05] <alexanderW> We haven't discussed much yet
[13:05] <@eagles0513875_> Mirek2: i was actually going to drop the start center idea
[13:05] <@eagles0513875_> and go for a file explorer
[13:05] <@eagles0513875_> Tor suggested just for starters to get a UI that will allow only opening of files on android for now
[13:05] <Mirek2> ok
[13:06] <@eagles0513875_> and I agree with him
[13:06] <@eagles0513875_> integration is going to be the toughest part
[13:06] <astron1> afk for dinner...
[13:07] <Mirek2> ok
[13:08] <Mirek2> I've been thinking -- since both the Android port and the web port reuse parts from LibreOffice, how about coding the final browser for the desktop
[13:08] <Mirek2> and then porting it to LibreOffice with a custom UI?
[13:08] <@eagles0513875_> Mirek2:  android is a java UI
[13:09] <Mirek2> yeah, but the backend is the C++ desktop LibreOffice
[13:09] <@eagles0513875_> nope
[13:09] <@eagles0513875_> just functionality
[13:09] <@eagles0513875_> ui is a total rewrite for android
[13:09] <@eagles0513875_> and it won't work for the web ui
[13:10] <@eagles0513875_> for a web version which I'm not sure would integrate with the native c/c++ but i would look at the django python web frame work for that
[13:10] <Mirek2> yes, the ui is a rewrite
[13:10] <Mirek2> but the backend is cross-platform
[13:11] <@eagles0513875_> correct that is not my department though
[13:11] <Mirek2> the web version uses GTK's Broadway backend
[13:11] <@eagles0513875_> mmeeks is the one in charge of that project
[13:11] <Mirek2> yes
[13:11] <@eagles0513875_> I'm not even sure if a UI rewrite is even necessary
[13:12] <Mirek2> technically, it's not, but the UI wouldn't follow Android conventions if it wasn't rewritten
[13:12] <@eagles0513875_> agreed
[13:12] <@eagles0513875_> from what I'm reading and i have tried out the ui layout is mostly done in xml
[13:12] <@eagles0513875_> java if I'm not mistaken would be used for functionality
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[13:13] <Mirek2> anyway, you're just working on the prototype, right?
[13:13] <Mirek2> not the final?
[13:13] <Mirek2> in that case, feel free to be creative
[13:13] <@eagles0513875_> prototype
[13:14] <@eagles0513875_> I'm going for simplicity that a user will like yet still retain full functionality of the full version of LO on pc
[13:14] <Mirek2> ok
[13:14] <Mirek2> but don't get your hopes up that your UI will get implemented
[13:15] <Mirek2> it's going to have to be thoroughly reviewed by the design team first
[13:15] <@eagles0513875_> thats fine
[13:16] <@eagles0513875_> at least ill know though how to fix the code and adapt it :D
[13:16] <@eagles0513875_> and can submit patches
[13:16] <Mirek2> ok, good :]
[13:16] <Mirek2> in any case, have you talked about the whiteboard template?
[13:16] <Mirek2> has it been approved?
[13:16] <alexanderW> We tried:)
[13:16] <Mirek2> but...
[13:17] <alexanderW> No critizism so far. Should be vote again or do we regard it as approved?
[13:17] == Mirek2_ [d5dcf47d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.220.244.125] has joined #libreoffice-design
[13:18] <Mirek2_> had to open another tab, chat got stuck
[13:18] <Mirek2_> so why didn't the template get approved again?
[13:18] <alexanderW> no one voted
[13:19] <alexanderW> Well, I approve
[13:19] <Mirek2_> if nobody raised any complaints/reservations, then it's approved
[13:19] <alexanderW> I think we should start implementing it/ discussing individual whiteboards
[13:19] <Mirek2_> yes
[13:20] <Maggie> I just have one question: Would it be possible to allow for more formal use cases in the template?
[13:20] <Maggie> Because other than that i approve of it.
[13:20] <Mirek2_> such as?
[13:20] <Mirek2_> name a use case
[13:21] <Maggie> Example: A user wants to open a document
[13:21] == Mirek2 [d5dcf47d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.220.244.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[13:21] <Mirek2_> ok
[13:21] <Maggie> Then along with the Personas, if necessary, I could show a formal flow demonstrating how this works.
[13:21] <Maggie> I know that's a very simplistic example.
[13:22] <Mirek2_> not sure what you mean
[13:22] <Mirek2_> would the whiteboard be about finding the best way to open documents?
[13:22] <Maggie> No, not like that.
[13:23] <Maggie> Let me show you an example on the mailing list. I don't want to hold the voting because I approve of the whiteboard template otherwise.
[13:23] <Mirek2_> would this be an analysis of the current behavior or a description of the tentative design?
[13:23] <Mirek2_> ok
[13:23] <Maggie> Yes.
[13:23] <Mirek2_> so you approve, then?
[13:23] <Maggie> Yeah.
[13:23] <Mirek2_> ok
[13:24] <Mirek2_> then let's look at the first Interaction design whiteboard
[13:24] <Mirek2_> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Color_Handling
[13:24] <Mirek2_> wait, hold on
[13:25] <Mirek2_> about the status indicators
[13:26] <Mirek2_> it would be nice if Astron were here
[13:26] <Mirek2_> "design taking shape" vs. "finalizing proposal"
[13:27] <Mirek2_> I think design taking shape would be better, as the single tentative design really is taking shape from the ground up
[13:27] <Mirek2_> although it's based on the analysis of the submitted proposals
[13:27] <Mirek2_> what do you all think?
[13:28] <Mirek2_> (it's a minor thing, but it's better to get it figured out before we start implementing it on all whiteboards)
[13:28] <Mirek2_> no opinion?
[13:29] <Maggie> I think 'design taking shape' is fine.
[13:29] <Maggie> Might be a better way of putting it though
[13:30] <Mirek2_> ok
[13:30] <Mirek2_> then let's keep it that way for now
[13:30] <Mirek2_> and let's look at the color handling page
[13:31] <Mirek2_> problem 1: what do we do with the thoughts and ideas section?
[13:31] <Mirek2_> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Color_Handling#Thoughts_and_Ideas
[13:31] <Mirek2_> should I start a thread with these questions, so that we can discuss them and at the same time remove them from the whiteboard?
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[13:34] <Mirek2> i must be doing something wrong, as this chat keeps crashing
[13:34] <Maggie> I would take the issues under "Thoughts & Ideas" and put them under Analysis. Then take the remaining questions and make a thread out of them. I'm guessing that by thread you mean making one on the mailing list.
[13:34] <Maggie> Anyone agree?
[13:35] <alexanderW> Do you mean a mailing list thread?
[13:35] <Mirek2> there's no space for analysis of the current situation in the whiteboard, though
[13:36] <Mirek2> yes, mailing list thread
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[13:36] <Mirek2> only space for bugs and analysis of the proposals
[13:36] <alexanderW> I think the analysis of the current situation could be part of the summary
[13:37] <Mirek2> so what would you propose to add to the summary on the color handling page?
[13:39] <alexanderW> "The following issues with the current implementation should be avoided: ..."
[13:39] <alexanderW> And the a short description of the problems
[13:39] <alexanderW> *then
[13:39] <Mirek2> that should be inside a bug report then
[13:40] <Mirek2> we'd just link to the bug report
[13:40] <Mirek2> or inside the scope
[13:41] <alexanderW> I meant smthg like this: Handles are "hidden" in the menu (hard to customize the gradient for the current object)
[13:41] <alexanderW> Thats not really a bug
[13:41] <Mirek2> it is a design bug
[13:42] <Mirek2> but we coudl put it as "make gradient handles more apparent" under scope
[13:42] <Maggie> "    Naming of colors that are stored within documents but not available in the current --> How does the user know that this is a "non-standard" color? How does LibO set the name ("Color n", n=number)? "
[13:42] <Mirek2> or "expose gradient customization" or something along those lines
[13:42] <Maggie> Is this a current problem with the LibO color picker?
[13:43] <Mirek2> don't really understand the question
[13:43] <Mirek2> ok, now I get it
[13:43] <Maggie> I saw this under Issues in "Thoughts & Ideas"
[13:44] <Maggie> I was wondering why that couldn't be put under the Analysis section.
[13:44] <Mirek2> there is no analysis section on the whiteboard template
[13:45] <Mirek2> should be either under scope as "figure out how to name non-standard colors" or under bugs
[13:45] <Mirek2> preferably the former
[13:46] <Mirek2> in general, if it's something that every proposal should take into account, then it should be under scope
[13:47] <Mirek2> if it's not that important, then it's okay to keep to the discussion list
[13:48] <@eagles0513875_> generating patch to submit to the developers list to get the project included in core/android in the UI directory :)
[13:48] == Guest93207 [~alexander@dslb-088-078-119-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #libreoffice-design
[13:48] <Mirek2> looking forward to screenshots
[13:48] <Mirek2> can't test it though
[13:48] <Mirek2> anyway, back to the whiteboard
[13:48] <Mirek2> can we agree on this?
[13:48] <Mirek2> ok
[13:49] <Mirek2> maybe you could try http://webchat.freenode.net/ instead<
[13:50] <Mirek2> alex, if you
[13:50] <Mirek2> if you'd like to get caught up, I posted some of the chat on https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Mirek2#Discussion
[13:51] <Mirek2> sorry it's not spaced properly
[13:51] <Maggie> alright Mirek now I see what you mean
[13:51] <alexanderW> ah, thx
[13:52] <alexanderW> Yeah, such things should be under 'scope'
[13:52] <Mirek2> so could we keep all the important issues in either bugs or the scope and the unimportant or subjective stuff to the mailing list?
[13:52] <alexanderW> Makes it also look a bit more optimistic compared to highlighting all current shortcomings :)
[13:53] <Mirek2> :) yeah
[13:53] <Mirek2> so about the thoughts and ideas section...
[13:53] <Mirek2> would it be ok to just start a mailing list thread on it and remove it from the whiteboard
[13:54] <Maggie> Yeah.
[13:54] <Mirek2> ok
[13:54] <Maggie> That way the issues can be discussed with the team. Maybe even shared with the dev team in the future.
[13:54] <Mirek2> yeah
[13:54] <Mirek2> "competitive analysis" should go under "relevant art" -- agree?
[13:55] <Mirek2> can we get rid of the "today's behavior" section?
[13:55] <alexanderW> I think so
[13:56] <Mirek2> alright
[13:57] <Mirek2> about this patch -- http://www.mail-archive.com/libreoffice@lists.freedesktop.org/msg09942.html
[13:57] <Mirek2> I don't really see how it's relevant to the whiteboard...
[13:58] <Mirek2> what do you think?
[13:59] <Maggie> Looks like that would be more relevant for the dev team. Who submitted the bug and is that person a part of this team?
[14:00] <Mirek2> I just don't see it's use on the whiteboard...
[14:02] <Mirek2> do you?
[14:04] <alexanderW> Maybe a link to the video
[14:05] <Mirek2> does it only serve as relevant art? why is it under technical constraints?
[14:08] <Mirek2> anyone?
[14:08] <Maggie> The video provides an example of how the redesigned color picker would work.
[14:08] <Maggie> The technical information doesn't really talk about tech. constraints.
[14:09] <Mirek2> I think it's already implemented
[14:09] <Mirek2> I'll put the video under relevant art
[14:09] <Mirek2> don't think it's necessary to put the discussion on the page
[14:09] <Maggie> That can be taken out. It looks like it would be for the development team.
[14:10] <Mirek2> ok
[14:12] <Mirek2> working on rewriting the page, give me a minute
[14:13] <Mirek2> is there a thread devoted to color handling on the design team list?
[14:14] <Mirek2> I can't find it, don't think there is one.
[14:14] <alexanderW> Just make a new one
[14:16] <alexanderW> I'll be back in a few minutes
[14:16] <Mirek2> ok
[14:25] <Mirek2> first attempt: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Color_Handling
[14:27] <Mirek2> feedback wanted
[14:27] <Mirek2> :)
[14:29] <Mirek2> nobody?
[14:34] <Maggie> Much cleaner than the original whiteboard
[14:34] <Maggie> I'm guessing that the Discussion section would include any logs dealing with the color picker
[14:34] <Maggie> Or mail list threads
[14:34] <Maggie> Right?
[14:35] <Mirek2> yes
[14:36] <Mirek2> exactly
[14:36] <Mirek2> Shall we move on to the next one?
[14:36] <Mirek2> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboard/Calc_Range_Names
[14:37] <Mirek2> That's going to be a lot of work
[14:38] <Mirek2> It's not in my range of expertise -- I don't use calc
[14:39] <Mirek2> does anyone here want to take care of it?
[14:40] <Maggie> I would do it, but I'm not too familiar with Calc.
[14:40] <Maggie> Would be willing to work with someone who is;  I'm more familiar with Writer and Impress
[14:41] <Mirek2> yeah, me too
[14:41] <Mirek2> I'll ask when Astron or Alex comes...
[14:41] <Mirek2> I'm surprised that you could make it for today's chat, Maggie
[14:42] <Mirek2> the Doodle poll said you wouldn't be available
[14:42] <Mirek2> would this time be acceptable for you every week?
[14:42] <Maggie> Not every week.
[14:42] <Mirek2> as I'm afraid that this time is best for most people and it really can't satisfy everyone
[14:43] <Maggie> I can make the weekends (Sat and Sun)
[14:43] <Maggie> I'll try and make it as often as I can.
[14:43] <Mirek2> so it's ok if it's our weekly meeting time?
[14:43] <Maggie> Well, it's at 12 PM Saturday it seems so that's fine.
[14:43] <Maggie> At least 12 PM in my timezone.
[14:43] <Mirek2> ok
[14:44] <Mirek2> the next IRC chat will be the same time next week
[14:44] <Maggie> Alright.
[14:44] <Maggie> If I can't make it I'll yet you know ahead of time.
[14:44] <Mirek2> alright
[14:44] <Mirek2> one more thing -- do you have a complete log of this chat?
[14:45] <Mirek2> the web version failed twice for me, so I only have a fraction
[14:45] <Maggie> I was thinking of just copy and pasting what's in the window.
[14:45] <Mirek2> yes
[14:45] <Mirek2> could you do that and then put it on the wiki page once the chat is over?
[14:45] <Maggie> Okay. I don't have a name for the wiki yet.
[14:46] <Mirek2> at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings
[14:46] <Mirek2> see the past two logs for the structure
[14:46] <Maggie> Alright.
[14:47] <Mirek2> are there any whiteboards you'd like to tweak to the new whiteboard template?
[14:47] <Maggie> I don't have the names of everyone who attended.
[14:48] <Maggie> i would have to look at the white boards. I'm afraid I haven't put any up myself. I don't want to edit ones done by other members without their knowledge.
[14:48] <Mirek2> you, me, Alex Wilms, Stefan Knorr (Astron), Jonathan Aquilina, and perhaps some others
[14:49] <Mirek2> ok
[14:50] <Mirek2> I'll edit even the ones not authored by me, since it's going to be faster
[14:50] <Mirek2> thankfully the history is always saved
[14:51] <Mirek2> so we can always revert back or look back at what we had
[14:51] <Mirek2> and the original author can always tweak it to his liking
[14:52] <Maggie> If that's the case, then let me take another look at the whiteboards.
[14:52] <Maggie> I'm not too familiar with editing the wiki. is there anywhere I can go to learn more about this?
[14:52] <Maggie> I've only used pbWiki
[14:52] <Mirek2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_markup
[14:53] <alexanderW> hi again
[14:53] <Maggie> Alright.
[14:53] <Mirek2> if you're not comfortable with it, you don't have to
[14:53] <alexanderW> looks much better than before
[14:53] <Maggie> No I would like to contribute more
[14:53] <Maggie> I figure I should start somewhere
[14:53] <Mirek2> ok
[14:53] <Mirek2> pick a whiteboard to work on
[14:54] <Mirek2> and post your choice up here, so we don't accidentally end up working on the same stuff
[14:54] <alexanderW> i could start with table styles and templates dialog
[14:54] <Mirek2> Alex, how familiar are you with Calc?
[14:54] <alexanderW> not too familiar
[14:55] <Mirek2> neither Maggie nor me use it much
[14:55] <Guest93207> have only used it lonce
[14:55] <Mirek2> ok, then I assume you won't want to work on https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboard/Calc_Range_Names
[14:56] <alexanderW> maybe we could split the work on that whiteboard
[14:56] <Mirek2> also possible
[14:56] <Maggie> Mirek, I'll do the whiteboard for the Overflow menu. Is that alright?
[14:56] <Mirek2> sure
[14:57] <Maggie> And when do you need everything to be changed to the new template?
[14:57] <Mirek2> no due date
[14:58] <Mirek2> no developers are working on whiteboards yet, so we can convert them whenever
[14:58] <Maggie> Alright.
[14:58] <Mirek2> but faster is always better
[14:58] <Maggie> Ok. Are there still new icons proposals?
[14:58] <Maggie> And what's going with Citrus UI?
[14:59] <Mirek2> Citrus UI was always just a UI proposal
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[14:59] <Maggie> So there's no plans for a new UI for now.
[14:59] <Mirek2> not yet
[15:00] <Mirek2> nobody's working on it
[15:00] <Maggie> Okay. So no mockups for that for now.
[15:01] <Mirek2> about icon proposals: what do you think about testing them?
[15:01] <Maggie> You don't how it messed up?
[15:01] <Maggie> how would we test them?
[15:01] <Mirek2> not sure
[15:01] <astron1> @mirek: wheres björn now?
[15:01] <Mirek2> perhaps have something along the lines of the current "in context" image
[15:02] <Mirek2> just with a full UI
[15:02] <Mirek2> bjorn probably left
[15:02] <Mirek2> for good
[15:02] <Mirek2> im not sure though
[15:02] <astron1> ok
[15:03] <Mirek2> astron, are there any whiteboards you'd like to work on converting to the new whiteboard template?
[15:03] <Maggie> Mirek, where's the final version of the new whiteboard template?
[15:03] <astron1> hm my own about:config thing...
[15:03] <Mirek2> still at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Mirek2#Tentative_Whiteboard_Template
[15:03] <astron1> that isnt actually started yet
[15:04] <Mirek2> :) ok
[15:04] <Mirek2> astron -- about the "design taking shape" vs. "finalizing proposals" issue
[15:04] <astron1> yeah
[15:04] <Mirek2> I think "design taking shape" is more appropriate
[15:04] <Mirek2> as:
[15:05] <Mirek2> we're making the design from scratch, although based on the analysis of the submitted proposals
[15:06] <Mirek2> and "design" is the term that the whiteboard uses for the tentative design
[15:06] <astron1> oh ok ... from scratch but based on the proposals. isnt that a contradiction?
[15:06] <Mirek2> not really
[15:07] <astron1> but well decide on one that were using primarily.
[15:07] <Mirek2> all designs are basically from scratch, but based on proposed/past/competitor designs
[15:07] <Mirek2> yeah
[15:08] <astron1> thats not from scratch
[15:08] <Mirek2> sorry, misunderstood the question
[15:08] <Mirek2> we won't always necessarily take a single proposal and start from that
[15:09] <astron1> sure but therell be some sort of main influence
[15:09] <astron1> sorry for my terminology nazi-ness...
[15:09] <Mirek2> we should take into account all of the proposals and produce something from that
[15:10] <Mirek2> yeah, probably, not necessarily always though
[15:11] <Mirek2> theoretically, the tentative design is separate from the proposals and is based purely on what comes out of the proposal analysis
[15:11] <astron1> ok
[15:12] <Mirek2> but it's likely that it will resemble one proposal more than others
[15:12] <Mirek2> so is "design taking shape" ok?
[15:13] <astron1> okay... still weird somehow. but accepted
[15:14] <Mirek2> okay, good :)
[15:14] <Mirek2> if you can think of something better-worded, though, now is the time to say it
[15:14] <astron1> sure
[15:15] <Mirek2> should I replace https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/IdeaWorkflow with the new whiteboard template?
[15:15] <Mirek2> or create a separate page for it?
[15:18] <astron1> do we have some sort of replacement for requirements/wishes/constraints yet?
[15:18] <astron1> ~scope?
[15:19] <Mirek2> Scope, yes
[15:20] <astron1> well then do that, i guess... we can always roll back.
[15:20] <Mirek2> replace Idea Workflow, you mean?
[15:20] <astron1> yes
[15:20] <Mirek2> alright
[15:21] <astron1> obviously idea workflow is a bad title though...
[15:21] <Mirek2> everyone here agrees?
[15:21] <Mirek2> what would you suggest?
[15:21] <Mirek2> whiteboard template?
[15:21] <astron1> so ... maybe a new page, but link from the same pages
[15:21] <astron1> wb tmpl.
[15:21] <astron1> is fine
[15:22] <astron1> going off...
[15:22] <astron1> sorry.
[15:22] == astron1 [~cck@dslb-188-103-140-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #libreoffice-design []
[15:22] <Mirek2> ok
[15:23] <Mirek2> everyone agree?
[15:23] <Maggie> Yeah that's fine.
[15:24] <Mirek2> alex?
[15:27] <Mirek2> ok, I moved it
[15:29] <Mirek2> so everyone has a whiteboard to work on?
[15:29] <Mirek2> I'll take all of mine except the overflow menu
[15:30] <Mirek2> I guess we're done then?
[15:30] <Mirek2> anything else you guys want to discuss?
[15:31] <Maggie> I'm done for today.
[15:32] <Mirek2> alright
[15:32] <Mirek2> so, Maggie, please post the chat log on the wiki
[15:32] <Maggie> Alright. Will do when this chat is officially over.
[15:32] <Mirek2> officially over as of now
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