Design/Meetings/2014-12-10

Link
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Minutes-of-the-Design-Hangout-2014-12-10-tc4132227.html

Minutes
Dec 11, 2014; 2:25am Jan Holesovsky-4 Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-12-10

* Present: Adolfo, Jay, Jonathan, Kendy, Mattias, Stuart + Samuel: Add Close menu entry in the sidebar's menu that acts like View -> Sidebar toggle https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85937 Pushed to 4.4 branch (as well as to master) + Kendy: Check https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86738 [this was pushed after the libreoffice-4-4 branch-off (which      happened on 20th), so this had to be pushed separately to master and libreoffice-4-4] [this is incorrect (Jay)] [then I don't understand the issue :-) - please let's talk it on      the IRC (Kendy)]    + Kendy: Turn the Crystal icons off by default in configure    + Stuart: Try to come up with a good color for 'Blue Sky 1'    + Jay: Change the name "Style" in the context menu to a better      descriptive name for 4.4      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84295    + Mattias: Assign Ctrl+Shift+r to ruler toggle in Writer + Impress +      Draw - master and 4.4.        + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87042        + https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/13326/    + Ahmed: Push the new Sifr icons he's done recently    + Kendy: Talk to Milos wrt. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48622    + Alex: Gnome 2.20-style 'a' icons & Gnome 3-style text line icons    + Kendy: try to do a link to the Templates site for 4.4 - not too      probable      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85420 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=108377 + Jay: Create a blog post to collect templates that we could pre-install. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WLh_SdpyGVb4n-lzsPJ4XTNNDa0SGwUwo3Onm1HjoK8/edit?usp=sharing [ collected the categories, wrote up 2 paragraph for initial announcement, awaiting feedback now ] + Thursday - feedback + send to the marketing ML       + Monday / Tuesday - go live with the announcement + please feel free to update (Jay) + Samuel: Formulas and Navigator should open in the sidebar, not as     a special window https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85897 + Kendy: Research what is needed to do to only disable (not hide) the formula bar in Calc when Chart component is activated + Kendy: Tell Jay how to fiddle with the default position of     toolbars (so that he can tweak the Chart's toolbars) + Kendy: Do / find someone / easy-hack-ize automatic opening of the Track changes toolbar when there are tracked changes + Kendy: Check how hard it is to make sidebar honor the icon size setting + Kendy: Easy Hack-ize fixing of uno commands that need to be     duplicated in Draw and Impress + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84258#c2 + Kendy: Create Easy Hack for the Hi-contrast Sifr + Kendy: Adding 1.15 to the drop down list https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85949
 * Completed Action Items:
 * Pending Action Items:
 * Easy Hacks to be filed:

+ Kendy: GSoC task (or so) for converting "Manage Changes..." to     sidebar (instead of non-modal dialog) https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/13085/ - proof of concept, thanks to the hackfest :-)   + Jay/Kendy: GSoC for application (color) themes.    + Jay: add a Styles usability improvements section + list the      various things to implement to GSoC-next ideas        + https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/GenialIdeas          [styles previews in the sidebar etc.]        + Ahmed, Jay: Brainstorm about some nice / more styles for Calc          https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/493          [longer term - maybe better to add to the GSoC Styles task?]    + Replace "..." in dialogs with better descriptive names (like "Browse..." etc.) (Olivier)   + HIG fixes in many dialogs (Adolfo)    + Ctrl+Shift+R as toggle for ruler (Mattias)    + ParaspaceIncrease/Decrease commands in Writer and Calc (Maxim)    + Sifr updates (Matthias)    + RGB value of 'Sky blue 1' color (Stuart)    + Added 'Close Sidebar' command to Sidebar menu (Samuel)    + Hyperlink dialog, Find & Replace, Manage names are resizable again (Kendy)    + ...    + nothing this week :-) + should we update our palette? (Jay) + with less colors when it is easy to choose any color now + wouldn't that be a problem for interop? (Stuart) + no, inside we use the hex codes (Jay, Kendy) + can do an update - if you come up with something, just push it to     gerrit (Kendy) + and let's just rubber stamp it here in a meeting (Kendy) + Sifr + Breeze (Jay) + https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=285&t=123517 + Wiki with list of icons to design (Riddell) https://community.kde.org/KDE_Visual_Design_Group/LibreOffice_Breeze + LGPL3 now (Jonathan) + got students working on the matching icons (Jonathan) + hope to get more matches + under the Google Code-in (Jonathan) + some icons will need custom creations (Jay) + probably from scratch + Uri doing them, designing new icons (Jay) + nice, thanks! :-) (Kendy)               + using galaxy / tango as the template (Jay)        + custom LO icons          https://github.com/NitruxSA/plasma-next-icons/tree/master/actions/LO_lc_icons_breeze    + working on it    + when is the next release? (Jonathan)         + 4.5 in 6 months    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86891    + actually we shouldn't be afraid of resizable dialogs :-) (Kendy) + the guidelines allow that + and makes sense for dialogs that can show more information when resized + does not make sense to resize message boxes + true for edit boxes - cut off text that you have to scroll is annoying + thought that the resizability is not that useful (Adolfo) + but apparently people appreciate the feature (Adolfo) + OK to have resizability enabled again (Adolfo) + issue was with some of the dialogs for which the size changed (Jay) + conclusion: Enable resizability for all the dialogs that contain edit boxes. + going forward: Adolfo will make resizable the dialogs that behave well + it makes sense for them, will let non-resizable the rest + resizable: dialogs containing edit boxes (to allow user to see         the entire input), list boxes (to allow users see more lines          in the list box), etc.        + non-resizable: message boxes (static text), dialogs containing just push buttons, radio buttons, fixed text, combo boxes, etc.   + run a competition (Jay) + let's have some good looking templates (Mattias) + book, university thesis, reports, scientific article, office document, probably both modern and classic look of every one (?), showcase some features (?)... + fonts - the templates should use what is in the installation (Kendy) + timeline: + until Thu - feedback on Jay's proposal + on Mon / Tue - announce generally
 * GSoC tasks to be filed:
 * UI changes integrated the last week:
 * Last week's discussions that need a resolution:
 * Palettes
 * Icon Updates / Issues
 * KDE5 vclplug
 * Big unresizable dialogs (Jay)
 * Templates (Kendy)

+ http://amantke.de/blog/2014/12/work-on-new-libreoffice-extensions-site/ + unfortunately does not contain update to templates ? (Jay) AI     + ask what is the plan with the templates (Jay) + came up with 3 different types + single toolbar using small icons + sidebar oriented single toolbar has also been created https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/attachments/download/439/Single%20Toolbar%20-%20Sidebar%20Mode.png + single toolbar for those prefering large icons https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/attachments/download/440/Single%20Toolbar%20-%20Large%20Icons.png + got positive feedback (Jay) + maybe would be even good as a default for the full-screen mode? (Kendy) + will have a look what needs to be done from the technical point of     view (Kendy) + unfortunately no update since the last week + activating hidden toolbar icons when a user has a larger screen + MSO has a similar behaviour at different screen resolutions with the ribbon UI   + what is the minimum screen resolution that libreoffice is      targeting? + http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution#Computer_monitors + ~10% of web users still on 1024x768, apparently (Kendy) + ~9% for the last 3 months ;)             http://gs.statcounter.com/#desktop-resolution-ww-monthly-201408-201410-bar (Jay)
 * New extension site being worked on by @andreaslibo [Andreas Mantke] (Jay)
 * Single toolbar mode (Jay)
 * Resizable Toolbars (Jay)

+ https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hSYOFoG6jnj2G0zWDbUYkrGZoj7YCSI9j3onkTZ65bU/edit?usp=sharing Toolbar entry 4 - "Toolbars should be flexible, so if the window     size is resized or viewed on a smaller screen, lesser used buttons      can be dynamically hidden and icon sizes can be changed (e.g. from      large to small) in order to adapt to the best fit for the user at      that point in time. ..." + useful for people that want to resize the application etc. (Jay) + has a prototype, need to finish it somehow (Kendy) + Proposal https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HlcEpH_87y5rRtXt7c-ukWo9Tw64gtcNDSO8dguMhPs + survey closed 2014-Dec-03 (Heiko, Jay) + evaluation + analysis starts + will go through that with Jay (Heiko) + analysis done, unfortunately Jay was sick, so not released yet + will be done in the next couple of days (Jay) + https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/screenshots/ + can do Linux + Windows (Jay) + and can talk to Steve for macOS (Jay) + if you have any pretty-looking documents, please send them to Jay + got some from Mattias + Stuart, if you see something in the bugzilla, let Jay know too please :-) (Kendy)       + google docs document dumping folder          https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6qJrVIa0SAlaXJwc05rLU8zT00&usp=sharing    + checking the paths for menu, contextmenu and toolbar mentions that      are changed (Cor)    + has a wikipage with the changes (Jay)        + would be good to send the link to the document team (Kendy) AI          + send a mail to [hidden email] with              the wiki page (Jay)        + the help is compiled (Steve)            + checking this could be in the Moztrap too? (Steve)        + Olivier has a meta-bug for help (Jay)    + focusing on 4.5 now, more changes there than    + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86209#c6      "Have you thought in updating the help files to reflect the      changes?"        + unfortunately the menu is tight to how the menus are organized (Stuart)            + sequence & layout + unfortunately help is hard to edit (Kendy) + have a plan, but no time to implement, volunteers appreciated (Kendy) + need (trivial) searching implemented in JavaScript + php help - http://php.net/manual/en/ (Jay) downloadable version - http://php.net/download-docs.php + unfortunately no search :-( (Kendy)       + ms office online help (Jay)          https://support.office.com/en-in/article/Switch-transpose-columns-and-rows-ed1215f5-59af-47e6-953b-0b513b094dc2    + prototype working        + switch it on and off in Tools -> Options... -> General -> Privacy    + need the server part        + Mozilla UITelemetry seems to provide some useful stuff        + http://bwinton.github.io/d3Experiments/contextmenu.html        + https://people.mozilla.org/~mfinkle/uitelemetry/        + need to study that a bit...    + useful data collection to improve the menus/toolbars/sidebar (Jay)        + most popular inserted special characters for use in future          drop down        + most popular bullet/numbering styles for use in future drop          down        + location of the click action in the menu, as you can have          duplicates. e.g. Insert > Table and Table > Insert > Table + which context menu used. e.g. New Slide in slide pane context menu or slide view context menu + single click, click and hold, drop down click and multi-click. e.g. single or double click on format painter + clicking on the close document/window 'X' (.CloseDoc) and close application 'X' (.Quit) and from which app its happening + opening an app from startup (likely clicking on the         application launcher menu or execute from commandline) + opening an app from start center + opening an app with a document + whether a user used the enter key, mouse click, accelerator to         open a menu item + which toolbar they clicked a button in, as some buttons are in         multiple toolbars and users may add a button to a toolbar + which slide transition and object animations are used most in         impress + action/command sequence - the action they used and then the next action used. ex. - insert image then add caption + menu bar keystroke sequences - e.g. Alt+F + O   + collecting icon theme, font list, theme name (Jay) + where is the file? (Jay) + currently just dumped to the stdout (Kendy) + ideally should be kept somewhere in the profile (Jay) AI     + yep, let's have it in the file in the profile (Kendy) + what about privacy? (Stuart) + this not enabled by default (Kendy) + should we enable it by default, we must let the user know (Jay, Kendy) + currently we are not sending it anywhere anyway, just the collecting is possible (Kendy)
 * Impress survey (Jay, Heiko)
 * Terribly outdated screenshots on www.libreoffice.org (Kendy)
 * Updating Help (Cor)
 * Collecting the user information (Kendy)

+ It is possible - http://i.imgur.com/bkbQtzN.png + Possibly limit it to the standard and formatting toolbars as     a start, as that is only what most people see + Suitable filename for these icons needs to be decided - e.g.     xlc_..., hc_..., xc_..., or /32/insertpagenumber.png + Iconsets + Tango: 32x32 icons from Original Tango and Gnome Tango icon sets can easily be gathered for the essential icons, while others will need to be created. Tango will be the fallback icon set for all 32px icon themes + Sifr: 24x24 svgs can be upscaled to 32x32 by Kendy using his script + Human: Based on Original Tango with a few new non-Tango orange colored icons - http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/human-icon-theme + Oxygen: 32x32 icons can be pulled from the original icon set https://github.com/pasnox/oxygen-icons-png/tree/master/oxygen/32x32 + Galaxy: As it was designed by OOo, they never made 32x32 icons https://www.openoffice.org/ui/VisualDesign/OOo_galaxy.html + Others: does anyone care about the others :D + Tools > Options + Code needs to be implemented so that its selectable (likely by Kendy) + It should be automatically activated when the screen resolution is >= 1440 pixels and the icon set is Tango or Sifr + to be discussed + Some of the Benefits + will benefit the visually impaired (mentioned by iplaw67) + icons look clearer on larger screens + fills up the large empty space at large screens as the large 22x22 icons take up 960 pixels 1440x900 - 33% empty, 1920x1080 - 50% empty + what should be the naming? (Jay) + /32/insertpagenumber.png sounds good (Kendy) + the same amount of letters as xy_, and gives better idea what is going on (Kendy) + astron - https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51733#c8 "Apple use "@2" appended to the image name to mark 192 PPI        images and mixes them in with the rest of the theme. It might         make sense to follow that   convention. However, I am not sure         every file system correctly supports the @ character in file         names." + mirek - https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/35?r=309#message-309 + what we show in the UI does not have to be the same as we have in     the images.zip (Kendy) + what is the total size of the svgs you can collect (Kendy) + it might make sense to have a separate repo just for the icon sources maybe? (Kendy) + seems low - few MB (Jay) + for the rendered versions, icon-themes/*/cmd/32/insertpagenumber.png is fine (Kendy) + we may consider /lc_* -> /24/* etc. rename at some stage too (Kendy) + gnome tango (adwaita) - http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/adwaita-icon-theme/ sizes used per sheet - 16x16, 24x24, 32x32, 48x48, 256x256
 * Extra-Large (32x32) Icons (Jay)