QA/Meetings/2013/November 18

=Prep=


 * Joel suggested we do prep with call members ahead of time so that they know how to
 * Connect (via Hangouts or Talkyoo)
 * Mute and/or Find a quiet room


 * Should we start the call a few minutes early to help newcomers? (Robinson)
 * Yes -- Add a note to the times for the next QA Call
 * Added a note to the Talkyoo page about muting your microphone by default (Joel)
 * Similar note added to QA Etherpad (Robinson)

= Agenda + Minutes =

 Minutes:

Content from the meeting itself ("the minutes") will be displayed in blue boxes like this.

Start

 * Meeting started at: 19:35
 * Participants: Robinson, Joel, Florian R., Sophie, Tommy, Thomas, Joren, Stuart

Notes:

The State of QA
Including any Opening Discussion

UNCONFIRMED Bugs
UNCONFIRMED bug count:
 * November 4th: 1189
 * Today (18th): 1144
 * Difference: -45


 * Awesome! Keep up the good work!

Topics for ESC?
Does anyone have any topics/concerns that I should bring to the Engineering Steering Committee (ESC)? (Robinson)

Need_Advice Bugs
Need_Advice bugs

I'm going to bring up the following bugs:


 * - FORMATTING text:use-soft-page-breaks not honoured - Waiting for Miklos (or someone else)
 * - Inconsistent behavior of table.Borderline in Writer and Calc
 * - missing "ParentWindow" property on XUIElementFactory::createUIElement API - UNO/API ask Michael Stahl or S Bergmann - Got update from Michael Stahl on this one.


 * Bjoern was concerned we might see a spike in the number of unconfirmed bugs with the release of Ubuntu, but didn't happen (Joel)
 * Particularly annoying FTP bug (Joel)
 * - FILEOPEN: Speadsheet display nothing in file xls on ftp sever
 * Had trouble duplicating this bug; marked as NEEDINFO (Robinson)

"Ask, Bugzilla and Planet TDF's twitter accounts"
(see Zeki's email for details)
 * Is anyone in QA interested in taking the reins of the Bugzilla twitter account?


 * Anyone want the LibreOffice Bugzilla twitter account? (Robinson)
 * This twitter account is an EasyHack (Florian R.)
 * Usefulness? (Joel)
 * Leave it as read-only feed? (Robinson)
 * ACTION: - Robinson will talk to Zeki, get creds for the QA Team and make it a read-only feed

User perception of QA and Bugzilla

 * Example from this week: Tanstaafl's email - "The 'new' website is...difficult to navigate...My simple goal was to log into the Bug system, check 'My Bugs' and see [stuff]....What if I don't want to report a bug, but only want to search for bugs?...How do I just log into the bug reporting system and search it? Anyone?"
 * Charles is leading the website redesign in Marketing.
 * What input would QA like to have in this process?


 * Some easy way to see all of the teams and join one (Joel)
 * Tell our users it's not complicated
 * Think this is related to our Feedback page (Florian)
 * Agreed. Starting with the Feedback page and moving to our community pages, we need to convey an appropriate feeling (Robinson)
 * Point of contacts? Actual people? Not a leader, but someone who can answer questions (Joel)
 * Mentors? (Robinson)
 * Lists are a good place to go, but overhead of joining and overload of multiple responses can be daunting (Joel)
 * ACTION: Joel will email to QA List about message we'd like to convey to Marketing/Website for community involvement

PENDING ITEM: BugReport Page

 * [SUPERSEDED] ACTION: Connect with local team leaders (monthly meeting?) and work to interact with those teams in a different way (Robinson)


 * ACTION: Robinson will talk w/sophie later about best way to interact w/local teams
 * I'm gonna organize a meeting for RC1 with all the teams (Sophie)

PENDING ITEM: QA Website

 * [DONE] ACTION: Florian R. will set up QA Website work as a QA EasyHack


 * SOLVED! - (Florian R.)

PENDING ITEM: Tollef and Bugzilla TODOs and planning

 * [DONE] ACTION: 1st draft of proposal -> send to QA List (Robinson)
 * Nov 9th - Created proposal and sent to QA list (Robinson)
 * QA/Bugzilla/LibreOffice Bugzilla Proposal
 * Topics to discuss:
 * Outstanding work:
 * Dennis Roczek volunteering to help automate changes on the wiki.
 * Identify all remaining tools/websites/etc.. dependent on Bugzilla
 * Abbreviation:

Older:
 * ACTION: Get Tollef to activate voting on FDO (merged item)
 * ACTION: Get Tollef to add BOLD statement to each FDO mail sent out to not reply via mail (merged item)
 * ACTION: Get Tollef to clarify 'version' label in Bugzilla (merged item)
 * ACTION: Will track the filed bug and wait to hear updates (re: Bold statement on FDO mail)
 * ACTION: Continue discussion (long-term) of move to Locally-hosted Bugzilla


 * Robinson - Unsure when Tollef will be done
 * What if we can't migrate for a few months? (Joel)
 * Cloph set up bugs.documentfoundation.org -> bugs.freedesktop.org, so no sweat: We can use the redirect indefinitely (Robinson)
 * Fine with "B-L-O" but when pronounced as "BLOW" it's... not ideal (Stuart)
 * What about "LOB" ? (Tommy)
 * What about "TDF" ? (Stuart)
 * ACTION: Robinson will bring blo, lob, tdf, libo to ESC and ask them for input

PENDING ITEM: Update the whiteboard/keywords page

 * [SUPERSEDED] ACTION: Joel will update the whiteboard/keywords page


 * ACTION: Joel will turn this into an EasyHack and work on it (slowly)

PENDING ITEM: Bibisect Repositories

 * ACTION: Combine existing bibisect repos into one (starting pre-fork) (Robinson)


 * Made up a page about it QA/Bibisect/Bibisectzilla
 * Just need to sit down with Bjoern and hash details out
 * Size may be an issue for some contributors (Joel)
 * however, many problems with zsync (and large downloads), so perhaps much better for volunteers and for project bandwidth with git (Joel)
 * IDEA: Add bibisect into regular Developer workflow (Joel)
 * Would be two different repos, but might be something here we could do w/automated script (Robinson)
 * IDEA: Is there a way to figure out what LO versions correspond to this commit in master? (Joel)
 * Yes -- we could make a graph that showed if...
 * A particular build incorporated this commit and 'all' previous commits.
 * A particular build cherry-picked in this commit (but not all previous commits)

PENDING ITEM: GUI for Bibisect

 * [DONE] ACTION: Joel will talk to Cor about (possibly working on) the bibisect GUI
 * ACTION: Punt on implementation until after we have bibisect repos up and running (All)


 * Cor is happy to review, but doesn't have time to write code (Joel)

PENDING ITEM: Feedback pages

 * [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will go ahead with the Feedback page idea (and ping Rob)
 * Nov 5 - First draft of Feedback Page is now up - Suggestions/patches welcome :-)
 * Test Install
 * Git repo


 * Cloph suggests that we create a page in Silverstripe
 * Use localization tools built-in
 * Anyone interested in this project?
 * ACTION: Sophie will create page in silverstripe

PENDING ITEM: Most Annoying Bug List

 * ACTION: Joel will propose stricter guidelines for what qualifies as a MAB
 * Nov 5 - Here's a mockup of a new visualization toy we can use to keep track of MABs, in particular which versions have had testing (Robinson)


 * Whiteboard is becoming convoluted -> perhaps better formatting when we have our own bugtracker? (Joel)
 * MAB-Mockup: (Robinson)
 * Useful tool to do lots of powerful QA querying
 * Note that there's a way to indicate the earliest commit in which this bug shows up (usually located via bibisect)

PENDING ITEM: Keeping track of bug statistics

 * [DONE] ACTION: Joel will come up with what statistics we want to track (just a couple for starters) and send to Rob
 * [DONE] ACTION: Rob will script up a first draft of stats report based on what Joel sends him


 * Rob did some great work here: https://bugassistant.libreoffice.org/libreoffice/stats/stats.html
 * Florian R.: https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/si-gui/stats/?C=M;O=D


 * Rob knows what he wants to do here...wants to include charts (Joel)
 * There'd be a drop-down. Could show stats for any period over time
 * It would be great to try to merge this into the Bugzilla code and push upstream (Robinson)
 * If there's anything you're particularly interested in (stats-wise), ping Rob and ask him to add it (Joel)
 * Looking at the stats, looks like we need to focus some time there (almost 400 outstanding)
 * Thomas - Many (old) Writer bugs are hard to confirm/hard to know what they are talking about
 * If it's hard to understand repro steps, feel free to make a note and toss them into NEEDINFO state (Robinson)
 * ACTION: Joel and Joren will triage old Writer bugs; see if things need Need_Advice tag

PENDING ITEM: Updates to the BSA

 * ACTION: Remove EOL versions from the BSA and implement 'please update' message (Rob)

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 * General agreement to include (Joel)
 * Currently supported (stable) builds
 * Latest RC of each release branch

PENDING ITEM: Tag Repro Needs in Whiteboard

 * [DONE] ACTION: Implement webpage displaying lists of NeedsXYZ bugs (Robinson)
 * Oct 29 - First draft of Bug Presenter
 * Nov 4 - Now on GitHub

[Punting to Nov 18 because we didn't have many people on the call at this point on Nov 4th]

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 * Joel - PossibleRegression] tag should be looked at regularly

PENDING ITEM: QA Contest T-shirts

 * [DONE] ACTION: Pick a printer and get the shirts printed (Robinson)
 * November 4 - Quote received from printer; printing now underway (Robinson)

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 * T-shirts are done and sent!
 * Happy to see this done! (Joel/Robinson)
 * If you would like to purchase one, we have a few left (contact me for details)
 * If you're on the list to receive one, please send us an Action picture (e.g. you hard at work traiging bugs :-) wearing the shirt.
 * And thank you for your patience here... :-)

Long-term/Frozen Pending Items
These are long-term or frozen items (i.e. on ice until something else happens) that we don't want to forget about...

PENDING ITEM: What to do with FDO bugs filed against Extensions, Templates

 * ACTION: Joel will continue to monitor the situation

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PENDING ITEM: Talk to CS Department/others at University

 * ACTION: Put up a message on the message board at his University and see who is interested (Joel)

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PENDING ITEM: Hackfests

 * ACTION: USA involvement in hackfests -- (Keep on the agenda, discuss on QA list) (All)

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New Action Items
All items proposed between meetings go here

NEW ITEM: Title (Author)
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New Items (Proposed/Discussed at the Meeting)
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NEW ITEM: Start Center and Sidebar (Stuart)
There are some big issues with the Start Center and Sidebar in 4.2
 * - META: Tweak the new template manager to act as a start center [a11y]
 * - [META] Sidebar feature related issues

Points:
 * Interest in having me (Robinson) bring up some points to ESC
 * We need to get keyboard navigation working properly under the new GTK UI widget designs.
 * - StartCenter: it is not possible to easily navigate through recent used files with the keyboard
 * - ACCESSIBILITY: new GTK+ UI start center keyboard navigation not acceptable [a11y]
 * ACTION: Stuart will break this out into multiple pieces
 * ACTION: Stuart will prepare talking points for Robinson before Thursday's ESC call

Announcements

 * ANNOUNCEMENT: Our next meeting will take place... December 2nd (Friday) at 19:30 UTC, unless otherwise noted on the QA/Mailing List.

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End
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 * Meeting adjourned at: 21:00

= Topics = (Add topics below and reference them as in the Agenda/Minutes above)