Design/Meetings/2013-08-03

Cast

 * mirek
 * mipmap
 * astron

Topics

 * Icons & Text in toolbars
 * Features Overview page

Log
[16:14] hi all [16:14] hello [16:14] elixir, mirek2 – sorry for not replying so far [16:15] oh, the icon labels [16:15] it's fine with me [16:15] right. [16:16] anyway, ive worked on a very preliminary list for writer in the mean time [16:16] as it can be hard to sift through all the icons and find which ones don't work well enough [16:16] I think it might be good to bring up on the ml [16:16] right [16:17] btw, I was thinking we could replace the current Insert Image (From File...) icon with the Gnome one (without the Insert arrow) [16:17] possibly... [16:18] also, any message I should pass on at GUADEC? [16:18] astron247: anything wrong with it [16:18] ? [16:18] ah, right, youre at brno at the moment! [16:18] yup [16:19] though listening to lightning talks, so my response time can be slow [16:19] hm – it would be cool if you could find out what the plan with documents is, i suppose [16:19] Documents the app? [16:19] the app "documents", i mean [16:19] yes [16:19] anything you'd like to know in particular? [16:20] afaik, it can already edit google drive files via an embedded webkit view [16:20] yup [16:20] maybe ask if they plan similar editing capabilities for local documents [16:20] in Drive? [16:21] or an embedded LibreOffice thing? [16:21] find it out :) [16:21] ok, I'll ask [16:21] it gives you the option to open documents in LibreOffice [16:22] isn't that enough? [16:22] not really [16:22] i can do that through nautilus shell plugin much more easily [16:22] yeah [16:23] so you're looking for Drive integration or a streamlined LibreOffice that could run within Documents? [16:24] im not looking for it, id like to know what their plan is [16:24] (if there is one) [16:24] ok, I'll ask [16:24] anything else? [16:25] hm, you could ask everyone what annoys them most about libo… [16:25] :) [16:25] and what they like most [16:25] I'm sure there's a lot of stuff [16:25] that can annoy them [16:25] right. [16:25] but ok, I'll ask :) [16:26] btw, mirek, heres the rationale for the icons+ text change: http://uxmyths.com/post/715009009/myth-icons-enhance-usability [16:26] thanks for that [16:26] (maybe especially look at the blog post about outlook) [16:26] though I really don't need convincing [16:26] I agree with you [16:27] wow, quite an inspirational story [16:28] hello [16:28] hi there [16:28] im sure theyve made it a little more convincing – im not convinced people never used toolbars before, but fundamentally, i think theyre right [16:29] hi mipmap [16:29] anything we want to discuss today? [16:29] i uploaded an alpha version of the iconmanager [16:30] oh, right, sorry, I haven't replied to you yet [16:30] its fine :) [16:30] what's the goal behind the manager, btw? [16:31] that's pretty much what I would like to discuss. perhaps get some more feedback from mirek about the planet blog redesign. I don't have time to work anything on these projects during august, but I'll continue the work after that [16:31] being able to find your way around icons? Being able to test what an icon looks like among current icons? [16:32] 1) gather all icons in one place, 2) test an icon with a background 3) tag icons so that you can group icons together [16:32] thats the basics, the more advanced features would be to make it possible to upload icons [16:32] primarily pngs, [16:33] the ultimate goal would be to upload svgs, where the colors are treated like variables, so that you can create your own theme by defining some colors in a table [16:33] but thats a bit far off. first things first (tagging) [16:34] ok [16:34] well, some export function would be cool, too [16:34] for sure! [16:35] one thing which I already have found useful is a search link to opengrok [16:35] find a strange icon, click it, and then in the inspector click the opengrok link [16:35] then you can see what it's used for in the sourcecode [16:36] oh, do you think its useful to create a hiearchy of icon-names like gnome has, or is it non-applicable to libreoffice [16:36] that would be useful [16:37] and it's not Gnome only [16:37] https://developer.gnome.org/icon-naming-spec/ [16:37] it's an fdo standard [16:37] ah [16:37] what is fdo [16:37] http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html [16:37] freedesktop.org [16:37] I tried it doing it a little, but everything tends to end up in the action category [16:38] yes [16:38] but I can make a table for it so that it's supported, then it can be added manually later on [16:38] mipmap: thats expected – not everything is an emoticon [16:38] the subcategories are useful there, though [16:38] ah yes [16:39] hm, I have not seen the sub-categories before [16:39] good stuff :) [16:39] the subcategories aren't folders -- they're part of the filename [16:40] ok [16:41] the spec was created only for common items (it's there so that simple applications could use system icons), so you'll have to derive a name for many LibO icons [16:42] hm... I think the best approach is to create a table with the listed names and then apply them first to as many icons as possible and then deal with the rest [16:42] yeah, sounds good [16:42] astron247: how is the feature-page-icons working out? [16:42] btw, you wouldn't be interested in redesigning some icons? [16:43] I have to learn icon design first :) [16:43] the shape icons are easy, though [16:43] :) ok [16:43] it was my initial plan but I quickly realized how inefficient it is to just replace some random icon somewhere... so I began working on this tool [16:44] mipmap: feature-page-icons? [16:45] yes, I think we talked a little about some icons for the version features page during the pseudo-meeting last week [16:45] or perhaps I remember it wrong [16:46] ah sorry [16:46] i havent done anything yet – no [16:47] btw, could you post the log of that? [16:47] ok, thats fine :) me neither [16:47] I feel really out of the loop... [16:48] last week we did not know if we had a meeting or not... but me and astron talked a little about icons for the features page... [16:49] sorry – forgot to post [16:49] https://www.libreoffice.org/features/ [16:50] you have the log, though? [16:50] or is the conversation lost? [16:51] i saved nothing :( [16:51] that's ok [16:51] very sloppy [16:52] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Features_Icons.svg [16:52] these were the icons we discussed [16:52] ok [16:52] not much of a conclusion though... apart from perhaps suggesting to the web folks to separate the removed features from the features page [16:52] I'm not too interested in the Features page, so feel free to go ahead without me :) [16:53] ;) [16:53] some of the icons feel squished, though [16:53] well, icon design is not my strongest point [16:53] it's best not to resize existing icons, and if you do, make sure you adjust the new version to a pixel grid [16:53] that's fine [16:53] ok [16:54] do you make shades and stuff in inkscape or in gimp= [16:54] *? [16:54] Inkscape [16:55] best for adjusting, making different sizes, and HiDPI screens [16:55] we also talked about tux, as he might require some attribution(attrition?) to the creators -> problems -> better to make our own tux -> difficult [16:56] but thats about it [16:56] there's no public domain tux graphic? [16:57] there are various graphics on openclipart [16:57] not sure if any are good enough, but they do at least provide a good starting point [16:57] well ... none of them look particularly good, except the sleeping one [16:57] yep [16:57] also, i think we could live with giving attribution [16:58] anyway, as I said, I'm not too interested in the Features page [16:58] ok :) lets move on [16:58] I was kind of hoping we could sort through the Writer options [16:59] unless there's anything else you'd like to discuss? [16:59] I have nothing more, but I have also not given any thought to the options project [17:00] ok [17:00] we basically go through each Option and decide on how important it is [17:00] ok [17:00] if removing it would make LibO unusable, it stays [17:00] if it's useful, but not key, it goes into Advanced options [17:01] (we'll have a new dialog or an Options section for that) [17:01] ok [17:02] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Options/Writer [17:03] should we go through them, or do you want to discuss something else? [17:03] hm, in writer, if you click the print option category, do you experience lag? [17:03] elixir: are you there? [17:04] im ready when you are [17:05] no, the print option dialog is there right away [17:05] mipmap: no lag [17:05] maybe its checking for printers there? [17:05] perhaps its just me then [17:05] yeah I think so [17:05] (mine currently isnt connected) [17:06] mine neither [17:06] mirek2: do you want to wait for elixir? [17:06] no, that's alright [17:06] he hasn't said a word since the beginning of the talk [17:07] perhaps sleeping [17:07] #Update links when loading [17:07] (first category) [17:09] I vote for advanced since it is something you can do by a menu option as well (update fields) [17:09] I have to go now, sorry [17:09] mirek2: last weeks log is now up [17:09] the lightning talks just ended [17:10] aw great [17:10] we're going to find a vegan restaurant now [17:10] see you next week [17:10] ok :) [17:10] see you :) [17:10] well, bye [17:11] bye [17:11] btw, both of you have the whole log [17:11] so don't forget to upload it [17:11] nope [17:11] well, shall we finish here? [17:12] perhaps, unless you have anything more [17:12] not really, and id rather leave too [17:13] it's better to do the categorization of those options with more people [17:13] ok, lets call it a day [17:13] more people only have more opinions, so maybe not :) [17:13] ill upload the log [17:13] true true [17:13] bye! [17:13] thx