QA/Meetings/2013/December 02

=Prep=

= Agenda + Minutes =

 Minutes:

Content from the meeting itself ("the minutes") will be displayed in blue boxes like this.

Before we Start
A few minutes before we officially start the call, we'll try to have a few people on hand to help assist newbies set up their teleconferencing gear, get things muted, and log on to all of our communication channels:
 * QA/IRC
 * Etherpad - QA Pad
 * Talkyoo or Google Hangout

Start

 * Meeting started at: 19:42
 * Participants: Robinson, Bjoern, Joren, Thomas, Stuart

Notes:
 * Started a little late due to technical difficulties.

The State of QA
Including any Opening Discussion


 * Sophie and Cor are leading our BugHunting Session 4.2.0 on December 6-8.
 * Release plan workflow: Automation of updater?
 * T-shirts update:
 * Delivered to:
 * Passingham, van der Meulen, De Cuyper, Madero, Biondi, Lee
 * En route to:
 * Hackert, Mandal, Viehöver, Münch, Laszlo
 * \o/ (Bjoern)

UNCONFIRMED Bugs
UNCONFIRMED bug count:
 * November 18th: 1144
 * Today (2nd): 954
 * Difference: -190

=> Lots of good work this week.


 * Excellent work on UNCONFIRMED bugs!
 * We need mentors on deck in QA/IRC for the upcoming BugHunting Session this week

Topics for ESC?
Does anyone have any topics/concerns that I should bring to the Engineering Steering Committee (ESC)? (Robinson)

Need_Advice Bugs
Need_Advice bugs

I'm going to bring up the following bugs:




 * Nothing big right now :-)
 * (Later in the meeting): Stuart is going to give me some of our oldest accessibility bugs to see if I can get some traction on them.

PENDING ITEM: QA Team working with Local Teams

 * [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will talk w/sophie later about best way to interact w/local teams
 * ACTION: (Sophie) will organize a meeting for RC1 with all the teams
 * Nov 18 - Pinged QA List re: Local Teams as well as possible 'QA Event' per Cor (Robinson)
 * Nov 29 - Sophie emailed out about an all-Teams meeting in prep for 4.2.0 release (around Dec 16-22).


 * Sophie is in the planning process for the Meeting -- looking forward to an update from her next time!
 * Who wants to represent QA? (Robinson can try to make it, Bjoern is trying to be there too, but someone else would be better)

PENDING ITEM: Bugzilla Migration etc.

 * [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will bring blo, lob, tdf, libo to ESC and ask them for input
 * Nov 21 - ESC gave some suggestions, and left final pick up to us (I'm emailing out to the QA list)
 * Dec 1 - After some general discussion (and no consensus), voting on the abbreviation is now underway.

Topics to review:
 * QA/Bugzilla/LibreOffice Bugzilla Proposal
 * Where is Dennis Roczek with automated changes on the wiki? (we're basically done; most things left are pulled-in via extension)
 * What's our abbreviation? (blo#1234 ?)

Older:
 * ACTION: Get Tollef to activate voting on FDO (merged item)
 * ACTION: Get Tollef to add BOLD statement to each FDO mail sent out to not reply via mail (merged item)
 * ACTION: Get Tollef to clarify 'version' label in Bugzilla (merged item)
 * ACTION: Will track the filed bug and wait to hear updates (re: Bold statement on FDO mail)
 * [SUPERSEDED] ACTION: Continue discussion (long-term) of move to Locally-hosted Bugzilla


 * Please vote!
 * We'll end voting at the next QA Call (December 16th)
 * In holding pattern waiting to hear from Tollef/FDO Admins
 * ACTION: Robinson/Cloph will talk to Tollef about next steps in Bugzilla migration

PENDING ITEM: Update the whiteboard/keywords page

 * ACTION: Joel will turn this into an EasyHack and work on it (slowly)
 * - Cleanup Whiteboard Wiki Page


 * Some work done; more work to do

PENDING ITEM: Bibisect Repositories

 * [DONE] ACTION: Combine existing bibisect repos into one (starting pre-fork) (Robinson)


 * IDEA: Add bibisect into regular Developer workflow
 * IDEA: Create graph/tool to show which builds contain a given commit


 * I merged repos (added existing repos as remotes and then used the script to combine) (Robinson)
 * Tag oldest/latest in the repo (Bjoern)
 * Figure out some way to make it easy for a separate user profile for the bibisect repo (Robinson)
 * Maybe out of tree?
 * I'll put this 'combined' repo up on a test server so that people can poke at it and give me feedback (Robinson)
 * ACTION: Make combined bibisect repo available for testing (Robinson)
 * Some ongoing concerns about best way to get builds out of tb's and into bibisect repos (Bjoern)
 * This might entail some QA members helping to keep the TDF daily tb's up and running
 * Most of the time when a tinderbox breaks, it's something trivial

Regarding IDEA: Create graph/tool to show which builds contain a given commit:
 * for finding out if a commit is 'in' a build (Bjoern)
 * git merge-base --is-ancestor https://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-merge-base.html
 * mind for cherry-picking though -- Change-Ids are a better thing to look at?

PENDING ITEM: GUI for Bibisect

 * ACTION: Punt on implementation until after we have bibisect repos up and running (All)

 ''[Ed. Moving this to Long-term/Frozen Items]''

PENDING ITEM: Feedback pages

 * ACTION: Sophie will create page in silverstripe

References:
 * Test Install
 * Git repo


 * Sophie/Robinson - Mocked-up page in silverstripe; hit limits on what we can do via web GUI
 * Charles interested in adding this page to the overall Website redesign
 * Hope to have something functional (not necessarily pretty) up by the next QA Meeting (Robinson)
 * ACTION: Robinson will talk to cloph about getting page up (theme support?)

PENDING ITEM: Most Annoying Bug List

 * ACTION: Joel will propose stricter guidelines for what qualifies as a MAB

References:
 * MAB Tool


 * Punt

PENDING ITEM: Updates to the BSA

 * ACTION: Remove EOL versions from the BSA and implement 'please update' message (Rob)
 * See


 * ACTION: Ask Joel to add 4.3.0.0.alpha0+ Master (Robinson)
 * ACTION: Ask Rob to expand Windows (All) --> Windows 2k & XP, Windows 7 and Windows 8+ (Stuart)
 * Punt on BSA-related updates until we can hear from Rob

PENDING ITEM: Writer Bugs

 * [DONE] ACTION: Joel and Joren will triage old Writer bugs; see if things need Need_Advice tag

(There are a ton of Writer bugs in UNCONFIRMED)


 * Triaged some Writer bugs (Joren)
 * Outstanding bugs reduced to:
 * 3.3: 3
 * 3.4: 3
 * 3.5: 25
 * Categories really help us to break down the list of bugs into manageable pieces (Robinson)

PENDING ITEM: LibreOffice Bugzilla Twitter Account

 * [DONE] ACTION: - Robinson will talk to Zeki, get creds for the QA Team and make it a read-only feed
 * Nov 18 - Emailed Zeki
 * Nov 19 - Got creds; Joren is now happily tweeting...things.


 * Joren is now taking an active role with this Twitter account.
 * It's all good (Joren)
 * Had some good conversations with users -- already helped +/- 7 people.
 * Grateful users sometimes leave donations :-)
 * Let us know if you need help/if Twitter is taking a lot of time (Robinson)

PENDING ITEM: QA Input into website redesign

 * ACTION: Joel will email to QA List about message we'd like to convey to Marketing/Website for community involvement


 * ACTION: I'll check-in with Joel (Robinson)

PENDING ITEM: Start Center and Sidebar Concerns

 * [DONE] ACTION: Stuart will break this out into multiple pieces
 * [DONE] ACTION: Stuart will prepare talking points for Robinson before Thursday's ESC call
 * Nov 20 - Stuart provides docs (thanks!)
 * Nov 21 - ESC acknowledges dearth of a11y work; Assigns Action Items to help improve the situation
 * Nov 28 - Stuart, where are we with ESC's request to "file a11y concerns as individual bugs"? (Perhaps I can bring a specific list to the next ESC? (kind of like NeedAdvice)


 * How has the process been working? (Robinson)
 * I've split out some problems into multiple bugs (Stuart)
 * Still have a disconnect between the widget/UI layout and the VCL
 * Across all accessibility bridges, we need more people looking at them
 * ACTION: If you try to use LibreOffice without a mouse (and using a screen reader), how is the experience? (Everyone)
 * Meta bugs for tracking substantive Accessibility issues across the three OS families.
 * ATK AT/SPI on Linux (GNOME Orca) --
 * NSAccessibility on macOS (VoiceOver) --
 * Java JRE JAB & forthcoming IAccessible2 for Windows (NVDA) --
 * Notes on Windows:
 * Download and install NVDA (a downloadable Python-based opensource screen reader)
 * The MS-provided UI automation is not compatible with what we've done with OOo or LO in the past, so we're rolling our own brdige UAA -> IAccessible2

Long-term/Frozen Pending Items
These are long-term or frozen items (i.e. on ice until something else happens) that we don't want to forget about...

PENDING ITEM: What to do with FDO bugs filed against Extensions, Templates

 * ACTION: Joel will continue to monitor the situation

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PENDING ITEM: Talk to CS Department/others at University

 * ACTION: Put up a message on the message board at his University and see who is interested (Joel)

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PENDING ITEM: Hackfests

 * ACTION: USA involvement in hackfests -- (Keep on the agenda, discuss on QA list) (All)

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 * FOSDEM: There will be a hackfest in Brussels (Bjoern)
 * Basically all open source people in Europe will be there
 * There is a cool beer event on the first day
 * After FOSDEM there is the UX Hackfest
 * Hackfest/FOSDEM2014
 * http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2013/11/27/open-document-editors-devroom-at-fosdem-2014/

New Action Items
All items proposed between meetings go here

NEW ITEM: Fix Bugzilla attachment MIME-type problems (Robinson)
Relevant: QA/Bugzilla/Attachments
 * Due to a number of historical/technical reasons, we have hundreds of attachments on the wiki with the wrong MIME type
 * We want to fix these attachments programmatically
 * Complete fix will require (at minimum) a Bugzilla upgrade
 * Might need to have a bot to do daily cleanup

Current work:
 * Nov 21 - Joren poking at scripts
 * Rob is also on board for some help here

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 * Rob is on board to help, but no time this week (Joren)
 * Moggi suggested that we can use Python like the get-bugzilla-attachments-by-mimetype.py script
 * Problems with connection to Bugzilla.
 * Try to use Perl right now, like BSA does :-)
 * ACTION: Finish our MIME-type-fixing script! (Rob/Joren tag-team)

NEW ITEM: Title (Author)
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New Items (Proposed/Discussed at the Meeting)
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NEW ITEM: Dealing with big attachments for Bugzilla (Bjoern)

 * ownCloud doesn't scale -- don't want to create new account for each new person
 * In the past, we were uploading some files to the wiki (Robinson)
 * At least you can get your own account w/o bugging the sysadmins (Bjoern)
 * Florian suggested a git repository
 * Let's use the wiki for now, and see what we can do for the future (Robinson)
 * ACTION: Move existing large attachments to the wiki and update docs on the wiki (Robinson)
 * wiki is 25MB limit

NEW ITEM: Introduction video to LibreOffice QA (Robinson/Joren)

 * Would be useful to have an intro video
 * Perhaps a screencast
 * ACTION: Mock something up/have something to show for next QA Meeting (Robinson, Joren)

Announcements

 * ANNOUNCEMENT: Our next meeting will take place... December 16th (Friday) at 19:30 UTC, unless otherwise noted on the QA/Mailing List.

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End
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 * Meeting adjourned at: 21:00

= Topics = (Add topics below and reference them as in the Agenda/Minutes above)

The current list of available versions ("Version the bug appeared:") in the BSA is this:

 * 4.2.0.0.alpha1
 * 4.2.0.0.alpha0+ Master
 * 4.1.3.2 release
 * 4.1.3.1 rc
 * 4.1.2.3 release
 * 4.1.2.2 rc
 * 4.1.2.1 rc
 * 4.1.1.2 release
 * 4.1.1.1 rc
 * 4.1.0.4 release
 * 4.1.0.3 rc
 * 4.1.0.2 rc
 * 4.1.0.1 rc
 * 4.1.0.0.beta2
 * 4.1.0.0.beta1
 * 4.1.0.0.alpha1
 * 4.1.0.0.alpha0+ Master
 * 4.0.6.2 release
 * 4.0.6.1 rc
 * 4.0.5.2 release
 * 4.0.5.1 rc
 * 4.0.4.2 release
 * 4.0.4.1 rc
 * 4.0.3.3 release
 * 4.0.2.2 release
 * 4.0.1.2 release
 * 4.0.0.3 release
 * 3.6.7.2 release
 * 3.6.6.2 release
 * 3.6.5.2 release
 * 3.6.4.3 release
 * 3.6.3.2 release
 * 3.6.2.2 release
 * 3.6.1.2 release
 * 3.6.0.4 release
 * 3.5 all versions
 * 3.4 all versions
 * 3.3 all versions
 * Inherited From OOo
 * unspecified

Per our discussions, the list should be this:

 * 4.2.0.0.alpha1
 * Master [pointing at 4.2.0.0.alpha0+ Master]
 * 4.1.3.2 release
 * 4.1.2.3 release
 * 4.1.1.2 release
 * 4.1.0.4 release
 * 4.0.6.2 release
 * 4.0.5.2 release
 * 4.0.4.2 release
 * 4.0.3.3 release
 * 4.0.2.2 release
 * 4.0.1.2 release
 * 4.0.0.3 release
 * Older versions

The near future:
By November 21st (in 2 days) the 4.0 release branch will be EOL and 4.2 beta1 will be out, at which point the list should be:
 * Master [pointing at 4.3.0.0.alpha0+ Master]
 * 4.2.0.0.beta1
 * 4.1.3.2 release
 * 4.1.2.3 release
 * 4.1.1.2 release
 * 4.1.0.4 release
 * Older versions

Implementation Notes
Cloph mentioned that we can pull some information from the download server via rsync. We could also get some info out via HTTP:
 * http://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/stable/
 * This will give us a list of the current stable releases (from 1 or 2 release branches) from the download server
 * e.g. right now the directory listing of  includes   and  .

We already have a full list of available versions in Bugzilla (which the BSA already pulls from Bugzilla), so that can give us a few things:

Master branch

 * If we filter by versions that match 'master' and then sort alphabetically, we can just pick the top one

"Older versions"

 * This one is static (no updates required)

Stable versions are a bit more complicated

 * Take the list of stable releases (e.g. 4.0.6, 4.1.3) and chop off the last digit to just keep MAJOR.minor version information re: current release branches: (4.0, 4.1)
 * Include those versions matching one of the current release branches AND that include the world 'release'.

Latest alpha/beta/rc releases are most complicated

 * For every unique X.y in the Bugzilla version list, remove all but the last one that matches (so from our list above we have this:)
 * 4.2.0.0.alpha1
 * 4.1.3.2 release
 * 4.0.6.2 release
 * 3.6.7.2 release
 * 3.5 all versions
 * 3.4 all versions
 * 3.3 all versions
 * Remove all X.y < the smallest current release branch (per our list above, the smallest release branch = 4.0). That leaves:
 * 4.2.0.0.alpha1
 * 4.1.3.2 release
 * 4.0.6.2 release
 * Remove anything matching "[Mm]aster" or "release"
 * 4.2.0.0.alpha1

I think those rules should give us a proper list...we should check a month or so later and confirm.