Design/Meetings/2013-03-09

Attendees

 * astron
 * colonelqubit
 * Feldo
 * issa
 * medieval
 * mirek2

Topics

 * Flat icons
 * Color picker
 * Infobar
 * HIG
 * Options
 * freedesktop.org icon naming

Log
[16:04] == mirek2 [4e66c274@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.102.194.116] has joined #libreoffice-design [16:08] == issa [256913e5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.105.19.229] has joined #libreoffice-design [16:08] hello [16:08] hi issa [16:08] hi mirek [16:10] let's wait until :10 if someone shows up [16:11] sure [16:11] alright, let's start [16:11] anything you'd like to talk about? [16:11] == Feldo [56440636@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.68.6.54] has joined #libreoffice-design [16:11] yes the pdf icon [16:11] alright [16:11]  Hello. [16:11] hello feldo [16:12]  Did I miss anything? [16:12] not yet [16:15] https://raw.github.com/libodesign/flat-icons/master/context.png [16:15] I used the triangle next to the print icons [16:16] the triangle doesn't feel clear enough [16:16] (I wouldn't recognize it) [16:16] there should really be a page around it [16:16] ok [16:16] (there isn't a page around either tango icons, just a square) [16:17] a square will do [16:17] ok, although a transparent square might look weird [16:18] try what it looks like :) [16:18] or feel free to experiment [16:18] it's really your project [16:18] I'm just giving my feedback [16:19] the red should make it more recognizable once we have a colored set [16:19] next metaphors [16:20] ok [16:20] the drawing toolbar icon isn't clear in neither tango nor tango testing [16:20] (the one that shows the drawing toolbar) [16:20] I really like the metaphor you used [16:21] thanks, credits go to Ahmed (a coworker and a fellow libo dev) [16:21] *Ahmad [16:22] he did a great job :) [16:22] I made the icon but he suggested the metaphor :) [16:22] also the text direction icon beneath it [16:23] as in ltr vs ltr? [16:23] ltr vs rtl, yes [16:23] perhaps the one for rtl should read "ba" instead of "ab" [16:24] that's not how it works, it only reorders words [16:25] the current tango icon is a pen with the arrow, but it's very unclear [16:25] ok [16:25] I've never used it myself [16:26] so I can't comment on it, really [16:26] I assumed so, but I will check with people around me who use it [16:27] next the colors icons [16:28] I would say that the brush is unnecessary [16:28] as the color part is indicated by the color preview rectangle [16:28] true, although it's a bit prettier this way [16:28] I prefer it simple [16:29] (on a side note I think there is a bug and the color doesn't appear sometimes) [16:29] hm, that's strange [16:29] technically it would work better especially with the smaller 16x16 size [16:30] if we remove the brush would it be better to use a highlighter for the highlight icon? [16:30] I like the a in the rectangle [16:30] but it's all up to you, really [16:31] whatever you think looks best [16:31] me too, but it's not the same as tango metaphor [16:31] that's okay [16:31] we can change the tango metaphor [16:32] if we use a highlighter, would it be better to use the a in the rectangle for the background [16:32] because nothing really represents the background well [16:32] (the Tango testing pack is still a work in progress) [16:32] issa: I like the rectangle [16:32] so, sure, it's alright to use it [16:33] I'll try both and see [16:33] ok final flat icons related topic; colors [16:33] ok [16:33] what color should we use for the icons, both monochrome and (later on) colored [16:34] it's up to you :) [16:34] one of the Tango grays, maybe? [16:34] I'm torn between using libo's palette or tango's [16:35] use Tango's, as that's the one we use now for icons [16:35] the problem with libo's palette is that it doesn't have reds, so we can't stick with it exclusively [16:35] LibO's palette is for marketing only right now [16:35] ok [16:39] one thing that bugs me with the icons right now is the inconsitent line widths [16:39] any icons in particular? [16:40] compare the undo/redo icons to table, link, or align [16:40] the horizontal lines are the same [16:41] the undo/redo icons seem much thinner, though [16:42] maybe it's because they are disabled? [16:44] I don't think it's that [16:44] http://i.imgur.com/6kGyS3d.png [16:45] I think it might be due to the grid alignment [16:46] the link and align icons aren't aligned to a pixel grid [16:46] how do you resize the icons? [16:47] what ratio, I mean? [16:47] one is 16x16 the other is 24x24 [16:47] I simply type in the size [16:48] == medieval [c1280ada@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.40.10.218] has joined #libreoffice-design [16:48] hi all [16:48] hi medieval [16:48] issa: could you please use 22x22 instead of 24x24 [16:48] hello medieval [16:48] this is the size we're currently using? [16:48] that will make it more likely to match a pixel grid [16:49] issa: I think we're using 22x22 with a 1px border [16:49] padding, I mean [16:49] oh that makes sense [16:49] not 100% sure, though [16:50] the icons did appear weirdly large the first time I tried them [16:50] I'll check the other icons [16:50] (can somebody upload a previous text to me?) [16:50] sure, I will [16:51]  Hi medieval. [16:52] http://piratepad.net/iiI9upGBbK [16:54] also, the table icon seems a bit too tall [16:54] the full height should mostly be used only for complex, multi-item icons [16:55] single symbol icons should use less of the height [16:55] so that they don't stand out so much [16:55] I can remove the double line beneath the first cell [16:56] perhaps remove a whole row of cells [16:56] or even remove thebottom row [16:56] yeah [16:57] the show hidden items symbol is a bit too big as well [16:58] also, it'd be great if you could align the icons to a pixel grid [16:58] (very important for the way the icons are displayed) [16:58] show hidden items? [16:58] they are mostly aligned [16:59] only free form shapes aren't since they don't use straight lines [16:59] the align icons don't seem aligned [16:59] show hidden items = the paragraph symbol [16:59] they should be [17:00] they appear fuzzy in the screen you sent https://raw.github.com/libodesign/flat-icons/master/context.png [17:00] check the svg if you can [17:00] perhaps it's fixed now [17:00] I'll check it [17:00] yeah that's probably because of the size [17:03] the originals seem aligned to grid, but the large icons don't seem to be [17:03] because the are merely clones [17:03] resized clones [17:04] the larger icons should really be adjusted for their size [17:04] so it'd be better not to use clones [17:04] it's common practice to adjust icons for each size variant [17:04] ok [17:05] so what line widths shall I use? [17:06] in 16x16 it's mostly 2 pixels [17:06] right, so with 22x22, it should be mostly 3 pixels [17:07] but I should avoid using half pixels no? [17:07] yes [17:07] make sure the important elements are thicker [17:07] that'll complicate stuff a bit [17:07] yes [17:08] I think 2px with more detailed icons would be better [17:08] for example 4 lines for the alignment icons rather than 3 [17:08] it's up to you [17:08] it will mean more work, but the end result will likely be better [17:09] true [17:09] (more work as in you won't be able to just resize icons anymore) [17:09] and will have to adjust the existing icons for this new style [17:09] it's alright [17:09] alright :) [17:10] so these are the most suitable tango colors http://i.imgur.com/PMqKIxw.png [17:11] looks good [17:11] though it's hard to tell now [17:11] without using it [17:11] I'm guessing the darker colors are more suitable [17:11] yes [17:11] I think so [17:12] what about SparkleShare? [17:12] what about it? [17:12] have you been able to get it running? [17:12] yes, I've been using it to update the icons [17:13] ok, great [17:13] I haven't uploaded the pngs because I don't think it's useful [17:13] sure [17:14] one more question regarding the icons, what to do with the numbered bullets? [17:14] == astron [5f71d283@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.113.210.131] has joined #libreoffice-design [17:15] the numbers are too small to be seen, but moving the lines will ruin consistency with the alignment icons [17:15] our current icon skips every other line [17:16] (4 lines with bullets, 2 lines with numbering) [17:16] the lines are aligned, so consistency is maintained [17:16] or you could try 3 lines for each [17:16] if that would make it fit [17:16] and make the numbers 3 or 4 pixels high? [17:17] sure [17:17] it's really all up to you [17:17] make some designs, go for whatever feels better [17:17] I know that everything is up to me :P [17:17] (or check on the mailing list if you're not sure) [17:17] :) [17:18] I really can't tell you what to do without seeing the icons [17:18] you often have to go by intuition there [17:19] the png preview is full size [17:19] hi all... [17:19] https://raw.github.com/libodesign/flat-icons/master/stencils.png [17:19] hi astron [17:19] hey astron [17:19] hi astron [17:20] issa: I don't really like the way it's in the PNG [17:20] how would you put it? [17:20] would it be possible to have 3 lines in the numbering icon as well? [17:21] I guess? that would make the numbers clearer but it would be harder to tell them apart in one glance [17:22] in the 22x22 icon, not necessarily in the 16x16 one [17:23] I'll try and see [17:23] ok, great :) [17:23] astron, could you update us on the ESC call? [17:24] no. sorry [17:24] i skipped ir [17:25] t [17:25] alright [17:25] sorry, i will attend next week. skipping was not such a great decision, i guess. [17:25] that's alright, I'm not sure we had much to share anyway [17:26] fwiw, i was told we could be more active on ux-advise, though [17:26] ok [17:26] i guess i should be a (bigger) part of we... but i dont really have the nerve currently [17:27] is ux-advise only usability or anything ui related? [17:27] mostlyfor usability questions coming from hackers [17:27] well, it's basically for interaction between UXers and developers [17:28] the topics should be relevant to both sides, but can include anything that falls under UX [17:28] right. [17:28] so, yes, anything UI-related [17:29] btw, there was a request for an icon recently... from lionel. [17:29] ill find the mail [17:29] i see [17:30] http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-ux-advise-icon-for-toolbar-needed-td4041595.html [17:30]   i have yet to find the appropriate thread on the dev list, so i can see  what this is actually about (lionel doesnt mention it) [17:30] right [17:31] http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.ux-advise [17:32] that's the only place where the quote appears, according to google [17:32] so I'm not sure if it's from a public mailing list [17:32] (I googled "It can be done very easy. Only problem is that, new icon is needed, which") [17:33] could you write Lionel and ask him what he's asking for? [17:34] i will, yes. [17:34] thanks [17:35] however, issa, even if he needs a tango icon, could you maybe do it? [17:35] (since the impress remote icon i cant but trust you :) ) [17:37] astron thanks, I'll try :) [17:37] okay, great. [17:37] but I still didn't understand what the icon is about [17:37] should I contact him? [17:37] no, thats fine, i can do that... [17:38] (also technically the impress remote is a derivative of mirek's work) [17:38] but its probably something database-related [17:38] sure, just cc me [17:38] sure–we can do derivatives of each others work again, of course ;) [17:40] if I can move onto another topic: [17:40] sure [17:40] there are a lot of projects that we sort of abandoned [17:41] a few weeks back we agreed to change the scope of the color picker [17:41] to be document-color oriented [17:41] color theme oriented, sorry [17:42] let's have the proposal week this coming week, the tentative design next week [17:42] what was the developers reaction there, btw? [17:42] basically, it would be possible to have color themes, but nobody is working on them [17:43] right, just like the color picker [17:43] oh, and we don't have to worry about whether it's in the ODF spec [17:43] ..? [17:43] yup [17:44] medieval and I already made ones [17:44] where are they? [17:45] just a second [17:46] https://www.dropbox.com/sh/anhuju4pi2ozebu/5loAr1R-LP [17:46] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:I_colorpicker.png [17:47] cool [17:47] (I'd like to change some little details though) [17:47] I've made one as well [17:48] http://ubuntuone.com/6LRShdI4vUMdwiJaYMKbtP [17:48] show us [17:48] btw, it'd be really good to have touch support with everything new we develop [17:49] touch in mind, though not touch-first [17:50] mirek, yours doesnt open for me [17:51] (ubuntuone isn't very stable) [17:51] right [17:51] (try again, for me it opened) [17:52] it's a bit too.. unorthodox [17:52] should I upload it elsewhere? [17:52] no [17:52] (it opened for me) [17:52] issa: what would you change? [17:53] check mine [17:53] Should we have popover or dialog for custom color? [17:53] medieval: I say dialog [17:54] I would keep it in the popover, for easy access [17:54] (not that important in Writer, but key in Draw) [17:54] or is it easy to implement? [17:55] I don't think saw, draw is more about diagrams rather than detailed drawings [17:55] it's probably as easy to implement as it would be in a dialog [17:55] *I don't think so [17:55] mirek2 ok [17:55] issa: Draw doesn't really have a defined purpose [17:56] the reason why people don't use it to do detailed drawings is because the UI for it sucks [17:56] a part of that is not being to use custom colors easily [17:57] mirek2: given that it's in an office suite makes me think it isn't for "art" [17:58] anyway as long as the default popover looks the same it's fine by my [17:58] *me [17:58] looks the same? [17:58] as what? [17:58] why would we want to forbid people to make art with libreoffice? [17:58] also, what good is draw at anything these days? [17:59] mirek2: as in it only appears when you click the bottom of the panel [17:59] astron: true [17:59] issa: yes, as in the mockup [18:00] yes [18:00]   you could try to bring it closer to visio (technical drawings) or to  corel draw/freehand/illustrator (art) – but currently i see neither  direction realized there [18:00] right [18:01] I'd assume visio is the goal [18:01] (the only cool features are measurements and connectors, that indicate the visio direction) [18:01] issa: Draw really doesn't have a direction [18:02] it can import PDF's, Publisher files, Visio files, SVG's [18:02] perhaps it would be best to split it in 2 someday [18:02]   one of the things about draw is that it hasnt even seen much  development, since libreoffice started and even in the past few years at  ooo... [18:02] but I doubt anyone would be willing to maintain it [18:02] astron: right, nobody cares about it much [18:03] but it's easy to keep, as it shares a lot of code with Impress [18:03] I've always used powerpoint whenever I needed visio [18:03] and even impress is under-maintained [18:03] yes [18:04] so back to the mockups, I think explaining the reasonings for everything is important [18:05]   the only things that are maintained well currently are writer and calc,  and to a degree, base. but base has a long way to go, apparently to  catch up with access. [18:05] but I'm not sure if it's better to do here or in the wiki [18:06] == Feldo [56440636@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.68.6.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [18:06]   alright, so let's have proposal week this week and change the scope,  removing document colors and palettes and adding in theme colors [18:07] ok [18:07] anyone can put reasoning in the "Description" section of their proposal, we'll discuss the proposals next week [18:07] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Color_Picker [18:07] on this wiki page [18:07] I'll remove the current tentative design [18:08] cool [18:08] great :) [18:09] another abandonned project: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Infobar [18:10] well, we have them now, i think [18:10] ? [18:10] they just arent put to use [18:10] you mean the descriptions? [18:10] the infobars? [18:11] is it alright if I promote my guidelines to official status? [18:11] yes [18:11] great [18:12] also, I assume T-shirts 2013 is no longer relevant? [18:12] sorry. i meant we have infobars now [18:12] not that i fully agree with your guidelines (i hadnt read them) [18:12] ok [18:12] please, everyone, read them [18:13] it'd be good to have consistent use of the infobars [18:14] basically, i think i am in agreement... [18:15] me too, I never thought of it but it seems extremely useful [18:15] ok, good [18:15] alright if I promote it to official status, then? [18:15] but i would like to use them for showing progress as well [18:15] should add enabling complex text languages based on system/document [18:16] astron: is that what the status bar is for? [18:16] issa: what do you mean? [18:16] the guidelines were modeled after Chrome's guidelines, btw [18:17] oh, can you link to those? [18:17] they're linked to under Relevant art, I think [18:17]   mirek2: if you want to use any rtl languages (e.g. Arabic) or complex  language (e.g. Chinese) you have to enable a checkbox in the settings [18:17] http://dev.chromium.org/user-experience/infobars [18:18] mirek2: many Arabic users we came across complained because they couldn't figure out how to enable Arabic [18:19] mirek, we might not forever have a status bar and the info bars make it more visible (without being annoying) [18:19] issa: is it disabled on an install of an Arabic LibreOffice version? [18:19] mirek2: it was, I'm not sure about now [18:19] mirek: no, but many arabic users use us-en as their os locale [18:19] should be en-us [18:19] yes that's very true [18:19] I don't see how the infobar would be used in this case [18:20] should everyone's LibreOffice ask if they want to enable complex language support? [18:20] "This document contains Arabic text, would you like to enable CTL to be able to use Arabic as an input language?" [18:20] right, how would you detect whether to display it? when reading arabic? [18:20] issa: sounds good [18:20] or if possible it should check the system's keyboard input languages [18:20] that would fall under what the guidelines say, though, so there's no need to edit the guidelines for that [18:21] yes, but maybe add it somewhere so that we don't forget it :) [18:21] ok, I'll add it under valid applications [18:22] maybe we could collect a number fo examples? [18:22] I think the examples we have are find [18:22] (a larger number) [18:22] fine [18:23] ie very practical, concrete examples [18:23] if a developer is reading the spec, he shouldn't have to wade through a long list of possible uses [18:23] but if there's one or two important examples that you would add, sure [18:23] add a new section for all potential uses? [18:23] issa: thats what i meant [18:24] astron: yes, I'm telling mirek2 [18:25] if you'd like [18:25] I don't think it's necessary, though [18:25] and I would prefer to keep the guidelines short [18:25] so that developers would feel inclined to read them :) [18:25] that's why I'm saying put it in another section (or even page) [18:26] isn't that unnecessarily complicated? [18:26] it helps us not to forget things that could be changed [18:26] doesn't the developer really only need a few examples to know where to use the infobars? [18:27] astron: I think bug reports are better for that [18:27] (as in, if an infobar is needed, submit a bug) [18:27] ok [18:27] fair enough [18:28] astron: what use case do you see for progress indication? [18:28] seeing if i should run to the printer yet..? [18:29] if you dismiss it, where would it appear? [18:29] of course, the saving indicator would be less important, if you could still use libo while it saves something [18:30] I would find it very annoying if I had to close the infobar every time I saved a document [18:30] since it is inspired by browsers I think status shouldn't be there [18:31]   hm, no, it would close automatically then, after its doen  saving/printing, much like the status bar currently returns to its usual  appearance when either of these actions is finished [18:31] == Feldo [56440636@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.68.6.54] has joined #libreoffice-design [18:32]  sure, but the infobar would bother me and I would want to close it [18:32]  Is it normal I didn't see any new message for about half an hour? [18:32] for example when I'm working on an important document I save every few seconds [18:32]  that sometimes happens on IRC [18:32] feldo: no, you were disconnetced [18:33] (at least that was shown to us) [18:33]  http://piratepad.net/iiI9upGBbK [18:34]  ok [18:34]  (even Ubuntu's notifications bother me, actually) [18:34] == mirek2 [4e66c274@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.102.194.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [18:34] (mirek2_: yes those are quite terrible) [18:35]  also, it doesn't look like we're getting rid of the status bar anytime soon, so I would just keep the functionality there [18:35] I totally agree [18:36]  once we do lose it, we can brainstorm on how to replace it [18:36] ok, then [18:37]  so, alright if I make the guidelines official? [18:37] I'd say yes [18:37]  if yes, then we should start a place for the guidelines? [18:37]  a new HIG page? [18:38]  Sorry guys, I have to go. I forgot to do something so I can't stay to ask questions at the end of the meeting. [18:38]  alright [18:38] <Feldo> Goodbye everyone. [18:39] <mirek2_> if you have questions, post them on the mailing list [18:39] <mirek2_> bye [18:39] bye [18:39] <mirek2_> ok if I create a HIG page? [18:39] <Feldo> mirek2: okay [18:39] == Feldo [56440636@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.68.6.54] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [18:39] mirek2_: why wouldn't the new version announcement be there? doesn't browsers do that? [18:39] what's a HIG? [18:40] <mirek2_> issa: actually, browsers usually keep the new version quiet [18:40] human interface guidelines [18:40] <mirek2_> you often don't notice an update [18:40] oh ok [18:40] <mirek2_> here's Android's hig: http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/ui_guidelines/index.html [18:41] <mirek2_> sorry, whoops, here it is: http://developer.android.com/design/index.html [18:41] mirek, do we have anything with the semblance of a hig [18:41] <mirek2_> here's elementary's: http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines [18:42] <mirek2_> astron: no, but we should start collecting guidelines [18:42] <mirek2_> for situations where the platform's guidelines either don't mention something or when they can't be followed [18:43] ok [18:43] <mirek2_> so should I add a HIG page, initially with just the infobar? [18:44] we could reference gnomes hig as a fallback [18:45] (gnome 2, that is, since gnome 3's is still not very stable) [18:45] <mirek2_> sure, sounds good [18:45] <mirek2_> is gnome 3's public yet [18:45] <mirek2_> ? [18:45] there is a draft somewhere... [18:46] but in many cases it also falls back to the old hig [18:47] https://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/HIG3 [18:47] <mirek2_> yes [18:47] <mirek2_> or perhaps we could use elementary's HIG? [18:48] really? [18:48] <mirek2_> given that Gnome 2's HIG was designed a very long time ago [18:48] <mirek2_> astron: why not? [18:49] <mirek2_> http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines [18:51]   well, for one there a re several sections that dont apply to libo at  all (dock usage, etc) – we can ignore those. and also, something like http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines/text/writing-style seems wildly inappropriate [18:52] <mirek2_> the sections under "Desktop integration" should be taken for what they are: desktop integration with Elementary [18:53] <mirek2_> how is writing style inappropriate? all of the principles seem right to me [18:53] <mirek2_> what do you disagree with? [18:54] things like recommendation the wording "get some friends" make me a bit wary of what the elementary people do elsewhere [18:54] (i find this wording a bit offensive) [18:54] <mirek2_> I don't really agree with "Get some friends" either, but the actual principles seem solid [18:55] right [18:56] also, apparently it isnt entirely finsihed either, and also falls back to gnome's hig [18:57] <mirek2_> I think it's almost finished if not finished [18:58] == astron has changed nick to astron_afk [18:58] <mirek2_> given that it's more readable and more modern (i.e. suitable for modern UIs), I think it fits the bill better [18:59] <astron_afk>  still, i think there would be some acceptance problems (gnome still  being the bigger platform and elementary being irrelevant outside of the  ubuntu sphere) [19:00] <astron_afk> also, it does not seem to cater to touch user either, so its not that much more modern [19:00] <mirek2_> elementary's guidelines build on Gnome's [19:00] <mirek2_> astron_afk: sure, but it's still better than Gnome 2's guidelines [19:01] <mirek2_> it's also misleading to call gnome the "bigger platform" [19:02] is it? [19:02] <mirek2_> given that there's a range of Linux desktop UIs now and only Mate is truly Gnome 2 [19:03] <mirek2_> (and Gnome 3 is not at all like Gnome 2 -- actually, Pantheon is more like Gnome 2 than Gnome 3 is) [19:05] <mirek2_> while astron is afk, I'll bring up another topic [19:05] <mirek2_> would anyone like to revive the Options cleanup project? [19:06] <mirek2_> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Analyses/Global_Options [19:07] <mirek2_> we need to: [19:07] <mirek2_> - compare the stuff we have to the current dialog [19:07] <mirek2_> - start work on the dialog options specific to each module [19:09] not really, my hands are quite full [19:09] <mirek2_> alright [19:09] (and to be honest it doesn't seem interesting) [19:09] <mirek2_> true [19:10] <mirek2_> but it would solve some big problems [19:10] <mirek2_> like the complex language problem you mentioned earlier [19:10] <mirek2_> right now, it's hard to find any setting in the dialog [19:11] <mirek2_> medieval, what about you? [19:11] I have quit limited time this (probably next week) [19:11] <mirek2_> ok [19:12] what to you want to be done with it? [19:13] <mirek2_>  basically, first we analyze whether the option is necessary, whether  it's just a power user setting, or whether it can be done away with  altogether [19:13] I might know one or two guys who might be interested, although they aren't designers [19:13] <mirek2_> if it's a power user setting, we move it to a new "Advanced options" dialog [19:13] <mirek2_> issa: that'd be great [19:13] <mirek2_> they don't need to be designers [19:14] <mirek2_> actually, it's very menial work [19:14] good, I'll check with them tomorrow [19:14] <mirek2_> the core of the work is listing the options, like on https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Analyses/Global_Options [19:14] mirek: I thought it have be done? [19:14] <mirek2_> only for Global options [19:15] <mirek2_> and given that the options were listed based on the help page, there are probably some options missing [19:15] <mirek2_> that's also something that needs to be done -- comparing that page with the current global options [19:17] (i am thinking about it but now i am going to buy some food, takes some time) [19:23] <mirek2_> ok, go ahead [19:32] <mirek2_> astron_afk: when you get back, please tell us [19:35] i am back [19:35] welcome back [19:35] <mirek2_> great [19:36] <mirek2_> we've been talking with issa about icons privately [19:36] <mirek2_> here's the jist: [19:36] <mirek2_> it'd be good to follow the fd.o spec [19:36] <mirek2_> there's been talk about it a while ago, but nothing came of it: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Icon_Themes [19:37] <mirek2_> additionally, it might interfere with development [19:37] <mirek2_> the fd.o spec is on http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html [19:39] <mirek2_>  also, alex wrote on a semi-private mailing list: "I need to sort out  some rather big issues before I can think of participating in the  project again. I hope that doesn't affect the workflow too much and I  wish you good luck with the next release." [19:39] I wouldn't mind working on it but I really don't want to halt designing the icons [19:40] <mirek2_> so we can't count on him working on the Tango testing icons anytime soon [19:40] (working on the naimng I mean) [19:40] *naming [19:41] <mirek2_> fd.o naming isn't something we have to have, but it'd be nice to have [19:42] <mirek2_>  I don't think we'll find anyone to do it, though, as it's that sort of  boring thankless menial job that nobody really wants to do :) [19:42] heh, true [19:43] <mirek2_> anything else to discuss? [19:44] I was wondering if we should delay the meeting between 30 minutes and an hour [19:44] since most people come late, or would they come even later? [19:45] i have something [19:45] <mirek2_> I think they would come even later [19:45] <mirek2_> but sure, we could ask if we should postpone the meeting [19:45] <mirek2_> would you like to send out a maling list thread about that? [19:46] <mirek2_> originally, we used a doodle poll, and this came to be the most fitting time [19:46] <mirek2_> medieval: go ahead [19:46] Design/Analyses/Global Options [19:46] <mirek2_> yes? [19:46] (the current time is more suitable for me actually) [19:46] <mirek2_> me too [19:46] you me it is missing: writer [19:47] <mirek2_> that's not a global option [19:47] <mirek2_> that's a module-specific option [19:47] <mirek2_> module-specific options should be listed on separate pages [19:47] ok [19:47] <mirek2_> which is the job that needs to be done that I was talking about [19:47] ok [19:48] if i have time i am looking to it [19:48] <mirek2_> awesome :) [19:48] great [19:49] <mirek2_> anything else? [19:49] nothing I can think of [19:50] not from me [19:50] <mirek2_> ok, let's end the meeting then [19:50] <mirek2_> I'll post the log [19:50] ok [19:50] thank you, that was one long meeting [19:51] <mirek2_> :) they usually drag out this long, sometimes longer [19:51] bye, back to make my Coursework [19:51] <mirek2_> bye