Design/Meetings/2013-02-16

Attendees

 * issa
 * Manas
 * medieval
 * mirek2

Topics

 * UI vision
 * Flat icons
 * Workflow
 * SparkleShare
 * DeviantArt
 * Color picker

Tasks
issa medieval
 * organize the flat icon effort
 * take care of macOS toolbar background

Log
[16:00] == medieval [c1280ada@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.40.10.218] has joined #libreoffice-design [16:00] hi [16:00] <@issa> Hello [16:01] == Manas [75f2bc3e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.242.188.62] has joined #libreoffice-design [16:01]  hi all [16:01] hi [16:01] <@issa> hi [16:04]  hi guys, do we have an agenda for today [16:05] <@issa> no clue, first time here [16:05] i think we need to wait mirek [16:11] <@issa> while we are waitiing I was wondering what are you guys currently working on [16:12] on libreoffice or outside it? [16:13] <@issa> on libreoffice of course [16:13] haven't done so much lately [16:13]  well, i am not a big contributor either [16:14] <@issa> that makes it all of us [16:14] i am not programmer [16:14] and most projects are holded back by developers [16:14]  i use MS office in office and Libre office is more of a hobby for me [16:14] i use both [16:15] <@issa> i see [16:15] some time ago we discussed eay hacks here [16:15] i don't know how far are these [16:16] mirek is or chain between develpers [16:16] <@issa> aha [16:16] "our chain" [16:17] do you have something you want to change about LO? [16:17] or ideas? [16:17] <@issa> mostly the interface [16:17] ribbon? [16:17] <@issa> i'm not sure how to do it but i want it changed [16:18] http://clickortap.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/writer1.png [16:18] http://clickortap.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/citrus-overview/ [16:19] what do you think about that? [16:20] <@issa> i like the pop up when selecting text [16:20] <@issa> although i think i prefer having the other menus in the sidebar [16:20] <@issa> *the other toolbars [16:21] <@issa> the standard toolbar is always on top [16:21] <@issa> the other toolbar are in a sidebar similar to impress layout select sidebar [16:22]  it reminds me of inkscape [16:22] <@issa> no no no [16:22] <@issa> inkscape is confusing [16:23] i use inkscape a lot and don't find it confusing [16:23] http://pauloup.deviantart.com/gallery/28216273 [16:23] kind of that? [16:24] <@issa> probably because you are used to it [16:24] yes [16:24] <@issa> exactly like that [16:24] <@issa> i think this mockup is the one that gave me that idea [16:25] AOO is getting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Lotus_Symphony UI [16:25] ok [16:25] apache openoffice* [16:26] <@issa> yeah [16:26] looks different, but working ase paulo j mockup [16:27]  i think MS already used this design [16:27] <@issa> i'm not entirely sure if it is better than the current usability wise [16:27] MSO203 [16:27] <@issa> but the current looks outdated visually [16:27] i prefer current toolbars [16:28] what oses are you both using? [16:28]  Windows [16:28]  BTW, I like the Ribbon interface [16:28] <@issa> fedora at work, windows now [16:29] <@issa> we do libreoffice development at work [16:29] <@issa> just today we were talking about developing something ui related [16:30] easyhacks needs to be developed inot code [16:30] <@issa> we mostly work on RTL stuff so only a minority of users benefit from our work [16:31] <@issa> is there a page for that? [16:31] ui releated easyhacks* [16:31] you can ask the list of these from mirek [16:31]  RTL? [16:31] <@issa> right to left [16:31] <@issa> ok [16:32]  oh [16:34] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings/2013-02-02 [16:34] there we talked about easy ui fixes [16:34] <@issa> cool, will check out [16:35] most of them have bug* status now [16:37] here is list of these: https://mail.google.com/mail/?shva=1#search/in%3Atrash+mirek/13cb489990725278 [16:37] sry [16:38] https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-ux-advise/2013-February/001817.html [16:38] here [16:39] <@issa> thanks [16:42] == mirek2 [4e66c274@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.102.194.116] has joined #libreoffice-design [16:42] hi [16:43] wow, sorry guys [16:43] I really need to have an alarm set for 16:00 UTC [16:43] have you discussed anything? [16:43] (UTC+1 again?) [16:43] nothing special [16:43] I just lost track of time [16:43] ok... [16:43] <@issa> no problem [16:44] sorry everyone [16:44] topics? [16:44] honestly, I'm not sure [16:44] UI [16:44] look in linux and mac [16:44] ? [16:45] well, I asked Kendy about it, and it'd probably be best to keep the Linux implementation as is [16:45] though I can talk to him about it further [16:45] but macs whitish? [16:45] on macOS, I agree that it'd be good to follow the default style, and I don't even think it would be hard [16:46] if you'd like to, you could take charge there [16:46] i don't have mac [16:46] I think it might suffice just to send the gradient color values to ux-advise [16:47] <@issa> shouldn't there be a way to extract it from the system? [16:47] <@issa> as in dynamically instead of hard coding it [16:48] there probably is [16:49] would one of you like to send an e-mail to ux-advise and ask? [16:50] @issa has more experience about it? [16:50] <@issa> not really [16:51] <@issa> never did anything ui related [16:51] <@issa> (aside from some toolbar buttons) [16:52] it's not a difficult task: just ask the developers :) [16:53] since you proposed it, would you do it, medieval? [16:53] ok [16:53] i ask about it from them [16:53] alright [16:54] any other topic suggestions? [16:54] <@issa> icons? [16:54] what exactly? [16:55] monochrome icons? the new Tango icon theme? [16:55] <@issa> what new ones are being made? [16:55] flat [16:55] new tango [16:56] flat icons aren't being actively made [16:56] but that project could be started up again [16:56] https://plus.google.com/u/0/102673546895803839652/posts [16:56] new tango [16:57] (i suck making links) [16:57] honestly, right now, the icon-making process is fundamentally broken [16:58] <@issa> i wanted to work on flat but if it's not going to be default then i don't think it's worth it [16:58] there's only one person actively working on the new icons afaik, and the way to join him is basically to say which icons you want to work on, then send them to him [16:58] <@issa> these icons? https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZVKDSMIMmQI/UJ7ZVMSZlII/AAAAAAAAAjs/4gxThct0N-k/s932/LibreOffice.png [16:58] issa: who knows -- perhaps they'll be default if they're really good [16:59] yes - these icons [16:59] issa: yes [16:59] mirek you have quite good start with flat icons: http://clickortap.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/writer1.png [16:59] issa: there's also a chance that some operating systems will choose a flat icon set as the default [16:59] medieval: :) those icons are pretty horrible [16:59] <@issa> true [16:59] I really wouldn't recommend using them as an icon set [17:00] many of them are just text [17:00] but i like the idea with colors [17:00] <@issa> (on the previous part not the horrible comment) [17:00] yeah, we could incorporate those [17:00] <@issa> i think the flat icons was moving in the right direction [17:01] a number of people told me that they would like an icon set like that, so I think it'd be good if someone picked up the project [17:01] flat icons would look good in new windows [17:01] however, we need to figure out a good workflow first [17:01] <@issa> indeed [17:01] <@issa> i think we need stricter guidelines for consistency [17:01] tango colors + no shadows? [17:02] I'd use the Gnome mono icons as a starting point [17:03] <@issa> we could definately do that [17:03] just to show how good they look, this is how those icons would look under Inkscape: http://bassultra.deviantart.com/art/Inkscape-Redesign-345519518?q=favby%3Aelementary-art%2F45954099&qo=0 [17:04] so, let's brainstorm how to work on this [17:04] the wiki is not a good place for it [17:05] <@issa> i liked the idea of this http://i.imm.io/WqjJ.png [17:05] as it's tedious to upload each iteration [17:05] doesn't there be some eOS or gnome people who is very experienced with icons and is willing to help? [17:05] where is that from? [17:05] possibly [17:05] <@issa> from here http://www.somerandomdude.com/work/iconic/ [17:07] <@issa> couldn't we use a git repositry? [17:07] possibly [17:08] that was the initial idea, I think [17:08] not sure what the progress is on that, though [17:08] I'll ask Astron about it [17:08] btw, about Gnome's symbolic icons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpTHXEUTesA&list=UU4Ys3RMozzDVP6KoTjBTn4Q&index=3 [17:12] == mirek2_ [4e66c274@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.102.194.116] has joined #libreoffice-design [17:12]  sorry, got disconnected [17:12]  (at 17:08 UTC) [17:13]  issa, would you like to take charge of this project? [17:13] == mirek2 [4e66c274@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.102.194.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [17:13] <@issa> sure [17:13] <@issa> (not sure how to do the red text thing) [17:13]  red text thing? [17:14] <@issa> in irc [17:14] i think you can ask about it from gnome design team or eOS guys if somebody is willing to help [17:14] <@issa> never mind [17:14] <@issa> what's eOS? [17:14]  he means elementaryOS [17:14] <@issa> oh [17:15]  it's an OS by a design-focused team of volunteers [17:15] <@issa> i think i can start with basic symbols and guidelines [17:15] <@issa> i guess i have to check it out then [17:15] <mirek2_> I'd suggest you just use Gnome's guidelines [17:15] <@issa> yeah probably [17:16] <@issa> i'm not pretty sure how specific they are about consistency [17:16] <mirek2_> well, if you have any questions, contact Jakub Steiner or his GSoC student Barbara (http://gnome-stereotype.tumblr.com/) [17:17] <mirek2_> she's worked on quite a number of these icons [17:18] <@issa> so do you recommend reusing what can be used from these? [17:18] <mirek2_> yes [17:18] <@issa> ok [17:18] <mirek2_> that way, we'll fit with Gnome and all the distributions that use Gnome icons [17:19] <mirek2_> (also, the icons have a good license for us) [17:19] <mirek2_> cc-by-sa, I believe [17:20] <@issa> their icon-set has four colors? [17:21] <@issa> or actually five? [17:21] <mirek2_> possibly [17:21] <mirek2_> not sure [17:21] <@issa> interesting [17:22] <@issa> two tones, red, orange and green [17:23] <mirek2_> those were used for the Gnome Shell status icons [17:24] (https://www.dropbox.com/s/efej2z3658sev3k/kir.txt ) [17:24] <@issa> yes and the filesystem bookmarks [17:24] <@issa> (or sidebar icons) [17:25] <mirek2_> medieval: ask whether it'd be possible to get the gradient from the system or whether it should be hardcoded [17:25] == mirek2_ [4e66c274@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.102.194.116] [17:25] == realname : 78.102.194.116 - http://webchat.freenode.net [17:25] == channels : #libreoffice-design [17:25] == server   : rowling.freenode.net [Corvallis, OR, USA] [17:25] == idle     : 0 days 0 hours 0 minutes 19 seconds [connected: Sat Feb 16 19:12:03 2013] [17:25] == End of WHOIS [17:25] ok [17:26] <mirek2_> btw, were any of you at last week's IRC chat? [17:26] <mirek2_> was there even one? [17:27] i missed it - same reasons you were late today [17:27] i think there were none [17:27] <@issa> no, this is my first time [17:27] <mirek2_> ok [17:29] next topic? [17:30] <@issa> umm UI propsals? [17:31] <mirek2_> which ones? [17:31] EASYHACKS [17:31] i thnik he meant [17:31] the ones we discussed some time ago [17:32] ? [17:32] <@issa> in general [17:32] ok [17:32] <@issa> is any of them being considered? [17:32] <mirek2_> yes [17:32] <@issa> is the issue in not having developers? [17:33] <mirek2_> I need to submit bug reports for all of them first [17:33] <mirek2_> issa: sort of, but it's not that bad [17:33] <mirek2_> kendy is interested in working on some of them [17:33] <mirek2_> and some might be part of a GSoC [17:33] <mirek2_> project [17:33] <@issa> cool [17:34] <mirek2_> are there any EasyHacks you'd like to propose? [17:34] issa as I can understand you have some manpower in fedora? [17:35] <@issa> i'm sorry but how can i talk directly to one person on irc? [17:35] (i have same problem) [17:35] <mirek2_> if you're using the web interface, just click on the person in the right sidebar [17:35] <mirek2_> and select query [17:36] <@issa> oh ok [17:38] i see there are some great porposals on design wiki [17:39] <@issa> would new propsals be helpful or just confusing? [17:39] <@issa> *proposals [17:39] <mirek2_> well, we need to get our design process down [17:41] <mirek2_> http://elementaryos.org/journal/design-process is a good idea, imho [17:41] <mirek2_> helps explore the various possibilities [17:41] <mirek2_> in general, I don't think the wiki is a good place to work on designs [17:42] <mirek2_> because uploading them is tedious [17:42] <mirek2_> and SVGs don't render correctly [17:42] <mirek2_> (so the "ideal" thing to do is upload a PNG and an SVG, which is time-consuming) [17:42] <mirek2_> Gnome's tools sound good, but I have no clue how developed they are [17:42] <mirek2_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sgbJVqBLpQ [17:43] <@issa> but we need to at least have a wiki page for everything [17:43] <mirek2_> SparkleShare should be stable, I believe, but I have no experience with Magic Mockup or Glitter Gallery [17:43] <mirek2_> issa: definitely [17:46] SparkleShare sounds good [17:47] <mirek2_> elementary OS uses DeviantArt to host their mockups [17:47] <mirek2_> and it seems to be working well for them [17:47] deviantart is nice for making things public [17:48] <mirek2_> not sure if it's okay to require others to make an account there, though [17:49] you need to have accounti in both of them [17:50] <mirek2_> right [17:50] i think it should be so that we upload workitems to sparkle [17:51] and when we want feedback from public then to devaintart? [17:51] <@issa> so sparkleshare is like dropbox [17:51] <@issa> (i haven't finished the video) [17:52] <@issa> if the public feedbacks aren't that often we could use the wiki so that everyone can join [17:52] <mirek2_> well, sparkeshare is like dropbox with files in a git repo [17:53] <mirek2_> public feedback would be given on glittergallery, but I have no clue how far that project is [17:53] <mirek2_> https://github.com/EmilyDirsh/GlitterGallery [17:53] (deviantart have a loads of users) [17:54] <mirek2_> yeah [17:54] (no need for special ask via mail list) [17:56] does sparkle work only via "special code" [17:57] <mirek2_> you need git access, I believe [17:57] can you set up libreoffice-design ... [17:58] and make some guide [17:58] <mirek2_> sure [17:58] <mirek2_> we'll need to figure out how to use it [17:58] <mirek2_> and we'll need to check with the community if it's alright [17:59] <mirek2_> sorry if it takes me a long time to answer [17:59] <mirek2_> I have company over, so I'm multitasking [17:59] ok [18:02] you are working with it then? [18:02] <Manas> hi, got to go [18:02] <Manas> u guys have a nice weekend [18:02] <mirek2_> I'm trying to pay attention to both [18:02] bye [18:03] both? [18:03] <mirek2_> so, how do you imagine this to work, though [18:03] == Manas [75f2bc3e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.242.188.62] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [18:03] <mirek2_> both with the people I have over and this chat [18:04] ok [18:04] <mirek2_> I may have misunderstood your question: what did you mean by "working with it" [18:04] i think there should be some place where we can comment about proposals? [18:05] ah i was asking if you take care of it [18:05] (ask about it in design and ux-advice mailing list) [18:05] <mirek2_> oh, yeah, I've already set up a group [18:05] ok [18:05] <mirek2_> will do [18:05] <@issa> good [18:06] <mirek2_> is there a way to group proposals within a group, though? [18:06] <mirek2_> to link from the wiki [18:07] (i am not familiar this system) [18:07] <@issa> neither am i [18:07] <mirek2_> probably not, then [18:07] <mirek2_> the issue I see with using DeviantArt is that we'd either: [18:08] <mirek2_> * need to link to each proposal [18:08] <mirek2_> * link to the group, which would host all proposals [18:09] <mirek2_> with the former being better, but not ideal [18:09] like former user to there= [18:09] ? [18:10] <@issa> so it would be the same for glittergallery [18:10] http://elementary-art.deviantart.com/ [18:10] elementary have group [18:11] <mirek2_> issa: glittergallery is organized into groups [18:11] <mirek2_> oh, ok, I see [18:11] <mirek2_> on deviantart, a group can have folders [18:11] <mirek2_> that should be sufficient organization [18:12] yes [18:12] <@issa> we could suggest that to glittergallery [18:13] <@issa> if it automatically links to sparkleshare [18:13] <@issa> (these names are slightly ridiculous) [18:13] <mirek2_> I like them [18:13] <mirek2_> they're memorable [18:13] <@issa> me too i guess [18:17] <mirek2_> btw, good news, work is underway on font integration [18:17] <mirek2_> font repository integration [18:17] <mirek2_> and we should probably restart the design process on that [18:18] <mirek2_> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Font_Repository_Integration [18:18] <mirek2_> I'm not quite happy with what I proposed, will change it [18:19] what's wrong there? [18:20] <mirek2_> I'd like to experiment with how to tie in font themes, if we ever adopt them [18:20] <mirek2_> (though that wouldn't be part of the implementation) [18:20] ok [18:21] is the infobar ever implemented? [18:21] <mirek2_> it is [18:21] <mirek2_> Cedric is using it in his CMIS implementation [18:23] ok [18:26] is there any other topic to be discussed? [18:26] <mirek2_> would you maybe like to lead any project? [18:28] (i am not sure what i need to do there) [18:28] <mirek2_> is there any project that you think should have priority? [18:28] <mirek2_> medieval: basically, design and push devs to implement it [18:29] <@issa> are you talking about a specific design? [18:30] <mirek2_> no [18:31] i thnik personally the color managment should be priority [18:31] <mirek2_> ok [18:31] <@issa> agreed [18:32] <mirek2_> don't hate me for this, but I'd actually like to restart design on that one [18:32] <mirek2_> to take color themes into account [18:32] <mirek2_> shouldn't take much time, though [18:32] <mirek2_> a week for proposals, another for tentative design [18:32] <@issa> i think we need to make a template for all these drop down menus [18:33] <mirek2_> you mean pop-overs? [18:33] <mirek2_> an Inkscape template? what exactly do you imagine? [18:33] <@issa> yes, like the colors and the bullets [18:33] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Color_Picker [18:33] <mirek2_> http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines/ui-toolkit-elements/popovers [18:34] <@issa> no just a unified look that would work on all of them and look good cross platform [18:34] <mirek2_> we should work on that once we have a final layout for at least one of the pop-overs [18:35] <@issa> ok [18:36] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/8/84/C-picker.png [18:36] isn't this the final design? [18:36] <mirek2_> I'd like to think a bit more about the design [18:36] <mirek2_> as I'm not happy with the one we have [18:37] <mirek2_> I'd like to try the 10x10 design process described earlier [18:37] with smaller tiles [18:37] ? [18:38] <mirek2_> maybe a bit smaller [18:38] <mirek2_> the thing is, the current design is based on the idea that: [18:39] <mirek2_> * it should be designed for multiple palettes [18:39] <mirek2_> * theme colors aren't there [18:40] *there should be multiple palettes* [18:40] <mirek2_> it would be so much simpler if we just used theme colors instead of palettes [18:40] ok [18:41] <mirek2_> (theme colors are basically palettes, only there's one per document and there's a fixed set of colors) [18:41] <@issa> so just theme instead of current? [18:41] i think these popovers should be separated [18:41] themes should cover more than just colors [18:41] one big popup for just themes [18:42] <mirek2_> medieval: not sure if popup is the best way to go [18:42] <mirek2_> or do you mean a dialog? [18:42] <mirek2_> or a popover? [18:43] popover [18:44] <mirek2_> hm, we'll think about it after it's implemented [18:44] (if these are separated, then color popover should have only *custom color *theme palette [18:44] <@issa> why don't you design a mockup medieval? [18:45] i have [18:45] some time ago [18:45] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Color_Handling [18:45] these are old ones [18:46] <@issa> i meant for the theme to explain your idea [18:46] mine is irrelevant now [18:46] aa..ok [18:46] <mirek2_> medieval: I wouldn't separate them [18:46] <mirek2_> here I like what Office does [18:47] ms? [18:47] <mirek2_> http://www.bcgsoft.com/images/winforms/colorpicker.jpg [18:47] <mirek2_> yes [18:47] <mirek2_> theme colors at the forefront [18:47] (i have 2013 installed) [18:48] <mirek2_> though I do think it should be possible to set custom colors within the popover as well [18:48] ok [18:48] <mirek2_> especially important in a drawing app like Draw [18:48] but in office they are separeted (colors and theme popovers) [18:48] <@issa> just put custom color instead of more colors [18:49] <@issa> also i like their color arrangement better [18:49] <mirek2_> medieval: right, that's what I don't like [18:49] <@issa> (by hue and brightness) [18:49] <mirek2_> medieval: what do you mean? theme colors are within the color dropdown [18:49] yes [18:50] but you can change theme from different are [18:50] (are we talking about different thing here?) [18:50] i thin than *theme color and custom color should be in one popover [18:50] <mirek2_> oh, ok, I think I understand what you were trying to get across [18:51] <mirek2_> a separate dialog to choose the theme, right? [18:51] yes [18:51] <mirek2_> ok, I agree with that [18:51] <@issa> me too [18:53] == mirek2 [4e66c274@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.102.194.116] has joined #libreoffice-design [18:54] https://www.dropbox.com/s/l3nop6f03zrf4qy/kammaja.png [18:54] exactly [18:55] but there should be a way to switch to theme colors [18:55] <@issa> yes we need them [18:55] I mean, custom colors [18:55] with different popver= [18:55] I'd probably use a dialog for that [18:55] recent colors? [18:55] == mirek2_ [4e66c274@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.102.194.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [18:55] <@issa> medieval: the theme popover is for choosing the theme [18:55] yes [18:56] <@issa> medieval: the theme part in color popover is for choosing from the colors of the theme [18:56] i know [18:57] we are talking about custom colors tab now [18:57] (mirek are you online?) [18:57] so, I propose this: let's restart the design with an adjusted scope [18:57] <@issa> i am a bit confused [18:57] and of course what we have can serve as a starting point/inspiration [18:57] medieval: yes [18:58] i think we don't need custom colors anymore [18:58] <@issa> why not? [18:58] recent colors will be sufficient [18:58] <@issa> not really [18:59] how would you add to recent colors if you can't have custom colors? [18:59] i messed up sorry [18:59] (though it was different thing) [18:59] i meant colors in use [19:00] I agree -- we don't need colors in use once we have theme colors [19:00] <@issa> me too [19:01] )and can you making something in whiteboard for changing themes porposals?) [19:02] the problem is, we don't have themes yet [19:02] does we have custom colors inside popover (as in current proposal, or with dialog? [19:03] hopefully they'll be implemented, but we need to design in such a way to allow implementation at a later time [19:03] medieval: depends on the design [19:03] we'll restart the design process [19:03] with a tweaked scope [19:03] put 10xsomething there too [19:04] and proposed size of tiles [19:05] <@issa> and while we are at it we make similar popovers for bullets? [19:05] @issa we may be putting too much on our plae [19:05] plate [19:06] <@issa> yeah i guess so [19:06] my problem is that I don't have a functioning computer right now [19:06] (the one I'm typing on is a borrowed one) [19:07] == issa [5e606244@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.96.98.68] [19:07] == realname : 94.96.98.68 - http://webchat.freenode.net [19:07] ==  channels : @#libreoffice-design [19:07] ==  server   : rowling.freenode.net [Corvallis, OR, USA] [19:07] == idle     : 0 days 0 hours 0 minutes 54 seconds [connected: Sat Feb 16 17:58:36 2013] [19:07] == End of WHOIS [19:07] hopefully I'll have one soon, just need to get the fan replaced [19:07] ok [19:08] (https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Faster_Bullets_and_Numbering ) [19:08] I would personally prefer if we could restart the design process next week, as I'd like to submit designs as well, but if you'd like to start earlier, it's ok to have it this week [19:08] next week will be ok [19:09] i know what our goal is [19:09] great [19:09] <@issa> ok here too, i have to kickstart the icons and some developemnt to do [19:09] cool [19:09] i can start making it before [19:10] another thing on my to-do list is redesigning the design wiki [19:10] mockup* [19:10] ok [19:10] medieval: sure, you can start working on mockups now [19:11] I'd like something less wordy, something that uses more images [19:11] more like http://developer.android.com/design/index.html [19:11] (i have some project work tomorrow, but monday possibly) [19:12] does we have something quickly more? [19:13] i need to leave