Design/Meetings/2014-10-22

Link
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Minutes-of-the-Design-Hangout-2014-10-22-td4126627.html

Minutes
Oct 22, 2014; 2:12pm Jan Holesovsky-4 Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-10-22


 * Present: Alex, Cor, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Luke
 * Completed Action Items:

+ Kendy: Find somebody to transfer articles from redmine wiki to TDF [K-J volunteered on the list, thanks so much!] + Heiko: File a bug about better description of tooltip (sidebar - spacing). + "Increase Spacing" should be "Increase Paragraph Spacing", same for decrease [done https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85340] + Heiko, Jay: Come up with a set of questions for the survey wrt. cut / copy / paste. + brainstorm at the last meeting: remove all; remove just cut / copy; what the users use; what is acceptable; etc.     [done, and polished during the meeting] + Samuel: Create an easy hack - describe what tables should be striped, and how to do that in the code + Jay: Update the Insert field button's icon [tried to create a new icon instead of overwriting - unfortunately due to the technical reasons it has to be overwritten] + Kendy: Dropdown for the line spacing instead of the 3 icons (reuse the sidebar dropdown). [done some research, not completely trivial, but doable] + fixed some minor problems with existing sifr icons (Jay) + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84909 + Heiko + Jay will come up with a set of questions for the survey, and we'll review it at the next meeting + presented the blog post draft + would like to have screenshots (Kendy) + would like to have more options there - remove all copy/cut/paste, remove copy/cut + leave paster, leave everything (Kendy) + like the idea with the survey - maybe explain that we can come up with additional questions if needed (... whatever that may be ;) )(Cor)   + should be possible to add notes to the survey (Cor)        + in case there is even another way to achieve the functionality (Cor)        + we should cover all the options (Heiko)    + indeed not too complicated - since it's not scientific - we know little      bout numbers and the public - we must have the room to make our own good      _interpretation_ of the results. (Cor)    + do the users understand the paste vs. paste special (Heiko)    + Conclusion: Reached the wording of the Cut/Copy/Paste question.    + lovely survey now :) (cor) AI + Heiko, Jay: Get the screenshots + publish later this week / early next week. + Can we have pictures in the blog post? (Kendy) + before + after the hiding? (Jay) + yes, would be awesome (Heiko, Kendy) + Conclusion: Agreed the wording. + both properties and styles now use wrench (Kendy) + shouldn't we in fact change the icons there some way? + no idea what we'd ask in the survey ;-) (Kendy)   + we should change the icons (Heiko)    + previously a triangualar ruler - at least in Tango testing (Alex)        + can see it (Jay) AI  + Alex, Jay: Brainstorm a bit about a good representation of      styles / properties    + prototype working    + now it is possible to switch it on and off in Tools -> Options... -> General -> Privacy        + add that it's anonymous (Cor)            + please feel free to update the wording, and push to gerrit (Kendy)            + or give me the better wording to push that (Kendy)        + and on use of menu and toolbars and such ..(Cor)            + if this is that it does not track yet from where it was called, then              yes, this is still not implemented (Kendy)    + need the server part        + see what / how Mozilla is doing it        + hopefully we could re-use the code of the server part? + http://blog.mozilla.org/metrics/2011/08/25/do-90-of-people-not-use-ctrlf/ + https://testpilot.mozillalabs.com/ + https://testpilot.mozillalabs.com/testcases/beta/aggregated-data.html + server source code? - this is for the web... + hg clone http://hg.mozilla.org/labs/testpilotweb + https://wiki.mozilla.org/Labs/Test_Pilot/ExperimentAPI + not much stuff to re-use, sadly + existing functionality + just one icon looks strange when flipped (numbering) + just a normal bug, nothing extremely serious + Has code landed to make this possible Kendy? AI     + Kendy: Push that. + is it a good idea, if there is no capacity to even finish such an important icon theme as Sifr, to have 6 weak themes instead of let's say 3 or 4 good ones? + Do we have data on what themes are being used by users? Do users even know how to adjust icon themes? + Remove old themes + Industrial: Seems to be not available in the UI       + Crystal: Looks like KDE3 - we have Oxygen for the KDE4 look + What about the classic theme? (tar.gz file) + Make Tango the new base theme instead of Galaxy + Tango Classic, as current Tango isn't good with these black icons (Jay) + They're certainly much better than the older ones, that had frames and tiny lines Don't see the need to create a 3rd (!) duplicate of the Tango theme. (Adolfo) + The new dark icons are taken from the Gnome tango icon set https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Desktop_icons User Comments + foersom: Icons in LibreOffice 4.3 looks worse than earlier versions. http://www.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/2hyz7m/are_small_toolbar_icons_good/cl2o6aa + How the tango set looks in 4.3 (dark icons) vs 4.2 (blue and grey icons) http://i.imgur.com/WyxQELp.png Users on IRC mjayfrancis: 4.3 spellcheck icons seem somehow muddier. The rest are mostly an improvement Chen: visualy ver 4.2 is better then 4.3 + Image posted on twitter - http://i.imgur.com/4SCQaA0.png - https://twitter.com/jphilipz/status/524532470138413058/photo/1 Cor: New, the charactrs in the left 3 are too bold. Sophi: new ones, but with less thickness DubaiKnight1976: I prefer the old one tbh... new 1 would be fine if its less thick i think - irc - slacka: I'd say the old, but I do like the thicker lines of the new bold, italics, underline and 4 alignment icons. I think I'd be fine with the new if the I and II were changed to 1 and 2 (numbering) and the hollow red arrow was made a solid red arrow  (indent) and really happy if the Abc (spellcheck) was as clear as the old. l and ll is not a good symbel for 1 and 2. � I also think the hollow blue dot might be more clear if it was filled ohallot: old Papamatti: The new ones are way better than the old ones! iplaw67: old. the new are just too unclear, particularly Bold and Italic. beluga: the black glossy look on the new icons makes them unclear. the gloss in unneeded as an effect. well from the text alignment onwards it's readable steve_-_: I'd opt for the bottom row. drawback is the first two icons on the left which are hard to see in the new proposal + How long will tango_testing still exist? Why hasn't it been merged with Tango already? + ~all new icons were moved to https://github.com/libodesign/icons, so it can probably be removed (Alex) + These should probably be moved into the official Tango icon theme + There doesn't seem to be any guideline for how/if new icons are moved into the official repo + many of them still worth preserving (Jay) + let's not remove them (Jay) + number of icons in tango_testing that are really good & should go to Tango (Jay) + sounds to me as something that would fit a survey too (Kendy) + how many questions should we ask? (Heiko) + can be a separate survey, you can create an own (Heiko) + can try it (Heiko) + would be good to have screenshot of the toolbar (Kendy) AI + Heiko/Jay: Think of a survey; how to measure which icon sets should we include in the installation set? + previous studies have shown that the Tango is really good (Heiko) + no problem to introduce to one more set (Tango classic), but what goes into the installation should be a result of the survey (Kendy)
 * Pending Action Items:
 * UI changes integrated the last week:
 * Hiding of cut, copy, paste buttons from writer's standard toolbar (Jay)
 * Hiding of paragraph background (Jay, Heiko)
 * Wrench icons (Kendy)
 * Collecting the user information (Kendy)
 * Flipping of icons in LTR (Heiko)
 * Windows Large Icons (Jay)
 * 6 Icon Themes