Design/Meetings/2013-03-23

Attendees

 * astron
 * colonelqubit
 * hiok
 * K_Peignot
 * mirek2

Topics

 * Color picker/handling
 * Flat icons

Log
16:07:27 mirek2: hi astron 16:09:55 k_peignot: Ok ! For me I’m on my phone, trying the tablet but will be more difficult to navigate 16:10:12 mirek2: do you think you could update us on the ESC call, though? 16:10:55 mirek2: I’m on a (borrowed) tablet 16:11:37 k_peignot: Okay (me not yet it’s a difficult one) 16:12:32 astron: so, ... 16:12:48 astron: (ill be here for 10 mins, then gone for a while) 16:12:59 mirek2: okay 16:14:06 astron: hm, where to start ... as i opened my mail, i see that florian wants feedback on what the teams have done... do we care? have we done anything? 16:15:00 astron: oh ... esc update... 16:15:04 astron: (hi) 16:15:09 issa: hi all 16:15:21 mirek2: hi issa 16:16:46 astron: the call was less busy than usual... michael was away, and no one was not prepared to lead the call, so kendy ultimately did... 16:16:53 issa: can someone upload the log so far? 16:17:51 astron: also, many people seem to have been discouraged by the fact that the call thus started at ~10 past 16:19:34 astron: hm, i mentioned a few things about what happened on the list, (persona page moving, etc.), and talked to kendy about the possibility of ui/design gsoc’s – we now have ~three more of those, thanks to kendy 16:20:04 astron: additionally, we still have those that no one did in the last year (among them the colour picker) 16:20:05 mirek2: great 16:21:02 astron: cedric reminded me of a broken promise (i promised to put the template icons to be used as make-shift thumbnails into git) 16:22:42 astron: apart from that, i think there’s not so much that’s interesting for design 16:22:57 astron: (btw, mirek helped too with the gsoc tasks) 16:24:20 mirek2: :) not very much 16:25:19 mirek2: alright thanks 16:27:01 mirek2: Issa, astron, if you have the time and motivation, could you create a project for our new icon set on git? 16:27:33 mirek2: (not the flat one - I mean Tango testing ) 16:27:59 issa: sure, what should I add there? 16:28:36 issa: oh never mind, I thought you said the wiki 16:28:43 mirek2: and perhaps a short guide on how to set up SparkleShare? 16:29:15 astron: issa, you dont have the credentials to the repo, do you? 16:29:20 mirek2: ( just a text file with the steps) 16:29:29 issa: I’m not sure 16:30:44 astron: ill just create that 16:31:30 mirek2: great, thanks 16:31:56 mirek2: topics for today? 16:32:43 issa: did you have anything to say about the flat icons last week? 16:32:43 mirek2: astron, since you’re leaving soon, anything you’d like to discuss? 16:33:53 mirek2: don’t think so, but check the log to make sure 16:34:10 issa: I did, you simply mentioned it 16:35:04 k_peignot: No Issa, We have been waiting for you (we spent LOT of time on design picker), 16:35:07 astron: not really 16:36:16 issa: so any new feedback on the icons? 16:37:15 mirek2: some of the icons seem a bit thick 16:37:59 mirek2: e.g. the alignment icons 16:38:00 issa: any one in particular? 16:38:03 issa: oh 16:38:27 mirek2: could you post a link to the wiki? 16:38:35 issa: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Flat_icon_set 16:41:54 issa: the alignment icons are thick because I increased the thickness of all lines 16:42:12 issa: maybe I should keep them three lines then? 16:42:58 mirek2: I would prefer it if the large icons used the same line thickness as the small ones 16:43:30 issa: hmm I don’t think they would look good that way 16:43:37 mirek2: I like the 4 lines 16:45:09 mirek2: (that’s usually how icons are upsized) 16:45:34 issa: I see 16:45:43 issa: I’ll try them and see 16:46:22 mirek2: great, thanks :) 16:47:18 issa: no problem 16:49:19 mirek2: also, the highlighter tip seems a bit odd 16:49:54 mirek2: as its not tilted 16:50:25 issa: yeah I struggled a bit with that one 16:50:56 issa: but I think the bigger problem is that the small text color one is too small 16:50:59 mirek2: https://www.google.cz/search?q=highlighter+tip&amp;hl=de&amp;safe=off&amp;client=chrome-mobile&amp;source=lnms&amp;tbm=isch&amp;sa=X&amp;ei=ZN1NUbHMMuqG4ATehIG4Bg&amp;ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&amp;biw=1280&amp;bih=752 16:51:30 mirek2: yes, I think so too 16:52:01 mirek2: why not have it the same size as the style options 16:52:22 mirek2: (bold, italic, underline) 16:52:45 issa: because it wouldn’t fit in a square, unless I change the background color icon too 16:54:14 mirek2: I don’t think you’d have to 16:55:43 issa: that would make them slightly inconsistent 16:55:54 astron: i think the inconsistency is ok, too 16:55:56 mirek2: for one thing, background color applies to the paragraph (I believe), while text color to the selection 16:57:31 issa: true 16:58:17 astron:: what do you mean by that or is there an argument still to come? 16:59:30 mirek2: the size difference can be part of the symbolism 16:59:50 astron: oh... ok, i wouldnt go that far, but maybe... 17:00:06 astron: i just think a small inconsistency would be fine there 17:00:51 astron: (what i actually have more of a problem with is that the a and b look so unnatural... but those letters come from the original theme, so...) 17:01:39 issa: unnatural in what sense? they don’t resemble actual letters? 17:02:48 astron: well, they look very constructed (from too simple shapes) 17:03:13 issa: that’s the point 17:03:28 astron: i know, but still, they are really not very pretty 17:03:52 issa: I like the small ones 17:06:01 mirek2: I agree that the large ones don’t look that good 17:07:08 issa: I’ll play with the width and see 17:07:42 mirek2: cool 17:11:17 astron: thanks 17:11:34 astron: another thing that i dont like is the tick in the spell-check icon 17:11:43 astron: it seems really massive 17:12:28 mirek2: I’m thinking whether it might not be better to base the icons on Gnome testing 17:13:03 astron: gnome testing? what is that? 17:13:12 issa: he meant Tango 17:13:24 mirek2: Tango testing 17:13:40 astron: uh... how would that work? 17:13:42 issa: well I’m only talking what seems good 17:14:08 issa: For example the spelling icons are better in Tango testing 17:14:21 astron: let me see... 17:15:14 astron: right, they are quite nice 17:15:31 issa: on the other hand the drawing toolbar icon is bad in both Tango (brush with a drawn L shape) and Tango testing (pen) 17:15:32 astron: even if the text is really really dark and touching heavily 17:16:08 astron: right, the pen is not very tango-y, i think... (me standard argument :) ) 17:16:51 issa: well both of the don’t quite represent their functionality 17:17:20 astron: i guess thats hard... 17:17:43 astron: btw, some time i made a tick whose shape i liked better [ https://dl.dropbox.com/u/87946285/tick.svg ] 17:17:58 astron: ^some time^some time ago 17:18:31 issa: that will take a lot of vertical space 17:20:07 astron: i know, the angles are quite sharp, and if you look at it wrongly, you also might miss it is a tick... so, its not perfect 17:20:45 astron: just an idea 17:21:21 issa: I’ll try it :) 17:21:30 astron: that’s really cool. 17:24:40 astron: next, there was a pdf icon ... but i dont see it anymore 17:25:16 issa: yeah that one was complicated 17:25:52 issa: mirek2 suggested that I have to put it inside a page and I agreed 17:26:03 astron: agree with mirek suggestion 17:26:08 astron: :) 17:26:33 issa: a placeholder is next to the print icons 17:27:43 issa: the space is too small for the pdf icons 17:27:43 astron: ok... dont see it but im only looking at the png anyway 17:28:03 issa: (which I’m not even sure if we can use it) 17:28:12 astron: then, the email icon strikes me as being a bit tall 17:28:12 issa: https://raw.github.com/libodesign/flat-icons/master/context_large.png 17:28:21 issa: to the left of the print icons 17:28:38 mirek2: I agree 17:28:53 astron: ah, you mean the "comma button"... 17:28:58 issa: yes 17:29:16 astron: its only a placeholder though? 17:29:32 issa: I dunno 17:29:58 issa: can you suggest anything better that will fit? 17:30:03 astron: tbh, i wouldnt know what this button does at all 17:30:44 issa: me neither 17:30:50 astron: also, i really have no idea – pdf buttons are really hard to find a metaphor for 17:31:29 issa: that’s why I thought I’d use anything and people should get used to it :P 17:31:49 issa: in a way it’s similar to the current Tango icon but without the PDF label 17:31:50 astron: a document icon with a lock (lock the layout) is really silly and would wrongly suggest encryption... 17:32:16 issa: also hopefully the final version will be red, so that might give a hint 17:32:34 mirek2: wouldn’t it be best if it looked just like the Tango testing PDF icon 17:32:42 issa: I don’t see how it resembles a lock 17:33:04 astron: issa, i was just thinking of ideas (loudly) 17:33:15 issa: haha ok 17:33:38 astron: "thinking of ideas" – that sounds really dumb... 17:34:16 issa: that’s why they renamed it to brain storming, to sound smart ;) 17:34:50 astron: ^^ 17:36:30 astron: ok... back to topic 17:37:49 issa: yes 17:40:44 issa: what happened to the new icon they wanted? 17:41:36 astron: lionel has written back 17:42:19 astron: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-ux-advise-icon-for-toolbar-needed-td4041595.html#d1363329601000-655 17:43:04 astron: its, tbqh, not completely clear to me ... i am not a base user. 17:43:28 issa: me neither, but I’ll try its functionality and the related icons 17:45:12 mirek2: note about the flat table icon: it would be more consistent if it had sharp corners 17:45:30 issa: consistent with...? 17:46:32 mirek2: image icons and the way tables look in LibO 17:47:28 issa: hmm ok 17:50:37 mirek2: anything else about icons? 17:51:00 issa: yes back to the pdf icon 17:51:16 issa: there is the issue of how to fit the pdf logo inside the page 17:51:24 issa: it’s not like there is a lot of space 17:51:40 astron: whats the minimal line thinness you can use? 17:51:43 astron: 1px? 17:51:58 astron: (in the small icons) 17:52:34 issa: yes 17:53:23 mirek2: is the Tango testing somewhere online to see? 17:54:15 astron: hm... yes, on cgit.freedesktop.org 17:54:45 mirek2: Could you post a link? 17:55:05 mirek2: (sorry, everything’s harder on a tablet) 17:55:09 astron: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/plain/icon-themes/tango_testing/cmd/lc_exportdirecttopdf.png 17:55:51 mirek2: thanks 17:57:58 mirek2: wouldn’t that be doable with a flat icon? 17:58:29 issa: I wanted to fit it inside the page 17:58:35 issa: *inside a page 17:58:51 issa: I guess with just a simple border it can be done 17:59:31 issa: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/plain/icon-themes/tango_testing/cmd/sc_exportdirecttopdf.png 17:59:47 issa: (seems like there isn’t a small version) 18:00:13 astron: no, alex made large versions only 18:00:36 mirek2: Can’t the symbol just be sized down? 18:00:49 issa: I see 18:01:21 issa: maybe, but it won’t necessarily be visible 18:03:46 astron: not much use then :/ 18:04:28 mirek2: OK - could you try it and post a screen? 18:05:21 issa: ok 18:08:42 mirek2: great 18:20:59 mirek2: any other icon-related comments? 18:21:42 astron: not from me right now... i said the thing with the email icon 18:36:41 mirek2: any other topics? 18:37:39 issa: the pdf icon 18:38:12 issa: http://i.imgur.com/v3K1s4Q.png 18:38:25 issa: (rushed export, sorry) 18:39:25 astron: looks good, actually 18:39:34 mirek2: seems pretty good 18:40:02 mirek2: would be good to maintain the original uneven stroke, though 18:40:12 mirek2: for the final 18:40:24 issa: I think that was on purpose to match the full icon 18:41:05 issa: also I doubt it would mesh well with the rest of the icon, but we’ll see 18:41:16 mirek2: okay 18:41:43 mirek2: anything else? 18:42:03 issa: about icons I don’t think so 18:42:32 k_peignot: Just about the icon picker, two words if nobody else as anything to add about icons 18:42:55 issa: the color picker? go on 18:43:22 astron: allotment of two words for kevin :) 18:44:10 k_peignot: I will try to separate desktop and tablet versions this week. Keeping them "the more identical possible", but trying to solve problems that are different on tablets and desktop 18:44:26 k_peignot: I didn’t have time this week, but I will try 18:44:50 issa: cool 18:44:55 k_peignot: Actually the two biggest thing I see is changing icon height 18:45:00 k_peignot: (5x5 mm) 18:45:32 k_peignot: and for tablet version, having "Old/New" on top (else, they are hidden by your finger) 18:45:55 k_peignot: anything else you see that should be different in each version ? 18:46:40 issa: the tick mark should be replaced with a button in the desktop version 18:46:55 issa: (or was that already done?) 18:47:52 k_peignot: actually, the wiki has the last version https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Color_Picker#Tentative_Design 18:48:25 k_peignot: I don’t really see what oy mean by the button difference. 18:48:53 k_peignot: (Issa, I will also change what you told on the ML, I didn’t had time until net week) 18:49:22 k_peignot: (scuse me, hard keyboard on this poor tablet, and hard english for me :D) 18:49:30 issa: it doesn’t work for me 18:50:12 k_peignot: the link or the design ? D 18:50:33 issa: the link works, but I can’t get the png to show 18:50:48 issa: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/3/33/Color_picker_tentative_v1.png 18:51:05 issa: does this work for you? 18:51:15 k_peignot: ah yes me tto, that’s original I made it with Inkscape, and no problems at home 18:51:23 k_peignot: did you tried the SVG ? 18:51:40 k_peignot: (the link is on the file page, in source part) 18:51:56 issa: yes but was it updated? 18:52:39 k_peignot: yes I think I did too 18:54:41 k_peignot: I’m trying to share the png via Ubuntu One maybe it’s just corrupted on the wiki 18:55:10 issa: about the tick mark, I meant in the desktop version they use dialog buttons for such actions 18:55:19 issa: (like ok and cancel buttons) 18:55:53 k_peignot: I put OK instead of the tick button already I think 18:56:05 issa: ok good 18:56:09 k_peignot: yes it’s only the wiki corrupted http://ubuntuone.com/5dzsz5Lnu3ZuuTkU2HxYmG 18:56:19 k_peignot: here it works for me 18:57:35 issa: yes it works here too 18:57:52 issa: when I said dialog button I meant something like this http://i.imgur.com/8CPwbNN.jpg 18:58:34 k_peignot: Ok for the dialog button 18:59:07 k_peignot: I will let the OK but in button style on desktop version, and maybe the tick mark on tablet 18:59:25 issa: great 19:00:07 k_peignot: I anwered yur mails (Mirek, Issa, Medieval) answering your concerns with the previous design, and the changes I did on this one 19:00:27 issa: yes I read them 19:01:00 k_peignot: I think I solved almost evry of them (_85% I’d sayed) 19:01:11 issa: no more differences I think, the only thing left is that the theme creator label should be added to the button 19:01:46 k_peignot: Yes, I wanted to do this too 19:02:03 k_peignot: I will update you on ML during next week when all of this is done 19:02:21 k_peignot: Mirek, Medieval, all, others concerns about the new design ? 19:02:33 mirek2: sorry, l had to step Out for a while 19:02:39 issa: you don’t have to :) 19:02:57 mirek2: l will post the concerns on the mailing list 19:03:02 k_peignot: (Mirek, I made a two columns grey scale verson to, it’s on the wiki (and working) 19:03:05 k_peignot: Ok no problems 19:03:26 k_peignot: I will noit work on this before monday so you’ve time. 19:04:39 issa: any other topics? 19:05:13 k_peignot: for me, no. 19:05:58 mirek2: can someone past the log on the wiki? 19:06:04 mirek2: post 19:06:48 k_peignot: Me no, not on this tablet (almost impossible) 19:06:48 issa: I arrived late 19:06:50 astron: i can, i think 19:07:05 astron: (unless there was any discussion before i came here) 19:07:19 mirek2: ok, great, thanks 19:07:38 mirek2: no, not really 19:07:58 astron: ok then, have a nice weekend, all 19:08:05 k_peignot: Perfect, thanks Astron. 19:08:19 mirek2: alright, you too 19:08:21 k_peignot: Nice weekend too, to all of you ! 19:08:26 k_peignot: Bye !