QA/Meetings/2013/April 19

=Prep=


 * April 11 - Joel is looking to see if a new default time will work better for us


 * April 13 - Robinson (et al.) tested Etherpad Lite and it looks like it'll work well for us. Look at the table at the top of this page for the url of the Pad we'll be trialling at the next meeting :-)
 * More details:

= Agenda + Minutes =

 Minutes:

Content from the meeting itself ("the minutes") will be displayed in blue boxes like this.

Start

 * Meeting started at: 13:02
 * Participants: Florian R., Joel, Robinson, Bjoern, Joren, SteveBell
 * Bjoern, Joren, and SteveBell joined late
 * Joel had to leave a bit early

PENDING ITEM: Attachments on FDO (Auto default)

 * [DONE] ACTION: Bjoern will follow-up with Tollef re: FDO management


 * DONE, per Joel

PENDING ITEM: NEEDINFO Stagnant Bugs

 * [DONE] ACTION: Joel will investigate email option and hopefully move forward with closing bugs soon
 * PUNTed from last week


 * Have the email address 
 * Joel and Bjoern have access
 * ACTION: Joel will do 1st test of 50 bugs this week

PENDING ITEM: Documentation for Localized French BSA

 * [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will talk with Rob and Sophie about the draft language for administration of localized BSAs, and add new Action Items as necessary.
 * April 12 - Robinson consulted w/Rob and added more documentation and a table describing who is responsible for each BSA at QA/BSA/Localization.
 * Any additional docs/policy we need to create?


 * Need to find a 2nd person for each localized BSA to ensure prompt response to questions
 * ACTION: Robinson will add Charles Schultz as 2nd contact for FR BSA
 * ACTION: Joel will talk to Rob and will look for a 2nd developer for BSA code

PENDING ITEM: Contest Swag

 * [DONE] ACTION: Robinson and Joel will make a shopping list (with numbers of items and prices) that can be passed along to the BoD.


 * Robinson got prices
 * We'll need another week (facing problems of small-scale setup costs)
 * Backup plan: Just get T-Shirts for all prizes
 * ACTION: Joel will try to find a way to have a variety of prizes; will let the Board know if we go with our Backup plan.

PENDING ITEM: What to do with FDO bugs filed against Extensions, Templates

 * [DONE] ACTION: Keep discussing on lists.


 * Rainer is set as Default QA Contact for this Component
 * Bjoern: Mark as NEEDINFO and note: "Did you try to contact the developer of this extension?"
 * Joel: Use the 'Contact' link on the Extension site (will contact the admins of the site; if that produces too much email, they can suggest a new contact mechanism)
 * ACTION: Joel will try to get conversation started again
 * ACTION: Joel will (try to) contact the maintainer of the LO Extension Site again

PENDING ITEM: Certified QA Team

 * [DONE] ACTION: Joel will contact web team about this
 * PUNTed from last week
 * April 13 - Is this the same discussion as the "core team" and what we want to put on http://qa.libreoffice.org/team ?
 * Creating QA/Website in Silverstripe
 * April 14 - Florian R. is chomping at the bit to get started. What's holding us up?


 * Should be 'Core QA Website' or 'Core QA Team'
 * Florian R. - Website is working; holding off on publicizing the URL until it's more polished
 * Need photos for remaining Core QA Team members (don't feel pressured to submit one, if you don't want to)
 * Need bios (if people like)
 * ACTION: Joren will create macOS-specific pages
 * ACTION: Joel will create Linux-specific pages
 * ACTION: Florian R. will create Windows-specific pages
 * ACTION: Joel will ping marketing about new site

PENDING ITEM: Should we activate voting on FDO?

 * [DONE] ACTION: Bjoern will ask Tollef if we can change the text on the voting feature to something like "This bug affects me"
 * [DONE] ACTION: Bjoern/Petr: Will take this proposal to the Dev call tomorrow (April 11)


 * Bjoern - Tollef said we can activate the feature, it can be renamed, but not sure if the emails can be suppressed
 * Bjoern - If we can't suppress emails, try testing?
 * We will test the feature without publicizing it being active in order to see if emails are sent every vote
 * ACTION: Bjoern will keep shepherding the implementation of this feature

PENDING ITEM: Provide clearer help in the absence of a formal hierarchy [was "Formal Structure"]

 * [DONE] ACTION: Bjoern will create a proposal for a mailing list or email contact where people can contact the BoD or ESC and ask for help using TDF infrastructure or funds
 * (e.g. "Who can open a Talkyoo room for me to have a Design meeting?" or "How can I get $100 to do X?")


 * Bjoern - Approached BoD.
 * If someone doesn't get a response from info@tdf, try approaching someone in power/on the board directly.
 * info@tdf is still the primary contact
 * For QA-related questions, we have the contact form: https://qa.libreoffice.org/contact/
 * Joel - If we grow, we might need to revisit this plan
 * AGREED: Good enough structure for QA questions in place right now.

=== PENDING ITEM: Add BOLD statement to each FDO mail sent out to not reply via mail ===
 * [DONE] ACTION: Bjoern will ping Tollef and ask if emails can include the line: "If you reply to this bug by email, please do not quote this entire email in your reply"


 * Tollef said he will do this
 * Bjoern - We don't want to say "Don't respond via email," we just want to discourage quoting of the content of the original email.
 * ACTION: Bjoern will keep working on this feature

PENDING ITEM: Update the whiteboard/keywords page

 * ACTION: Joel will update the whiteboard/keywords page
 * Joel - No change

=== PENDING ITEM: How should the BugReport and Bug Documentation wiki pages be organized? ===
 * ACTION: Robinson will organize a separate call when Rainer, Rob, and other interested parties can figure out a plan here.
 * April 16 - Based on conversations on the QA list, this might expand into a broader discussion of how to simplify and improve QA docs in general; Starting with these bugtracker-related docs might be a good place to start.


 * Robinson - Still working on this

PENDING ITEM: Establish 'End of Life' for LibreOffice releases

 * Good discussion ongoing on the mailing list; Likely to reach consensus soon
 * [DONE] ACTION: Follow-up at next QA Meeting to make sure that we've resolved this issue
 * April 13 - Updates by Petr look good; Topic was discussed in ESC meeting and appeared to get agreement
 * Just need to display the EOL date for each minor release on the ReleasePlan page (and individual release pages).
 * April 15 - Robinson updated ReleasePlan and sub-pages per Petr's request. We're basically done here.


 * ESC was supportive of 1 month after last point release
 * Website updated

=== PENDING ITEM: Use an online collaborative editor for minutes so that they can be viewed as the call progresses ===
 * [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will investigate options and will try to use such an editor for taking minutes at the next meeting
 * April 13 - Robinson, Joel, and Joren test Etherpad Lite with much success.
 * Decently responsive
 * Includes a chat window (but we should just use IRC for now)
 * No method of making the document read-only, but let's assume everyone can act like an adult for now :-)
 * Robinson: We can use this pad as a trial run on April 19th: http://beta.etherpad.org/p/partyhat
 * If we don't hate the result, Robinson will ask Floeff to host the server part somewhere on TDF infrastructure.


 * People like the pad
 * Can follow-along with the meeting
 * ACTION: Joel will update the topic in the IRC channel for the next meeting to say "In meeting -- join us in Pad XXX" (etc..)
 * ACTION: Robinson will ask Floeff to install Etherpad on a TDF server somewhere.

PENDING ITEM: SI-GUI

 * ACTION: Florian R. -- Update Wikipage
 * April 12 - Florian R. and Robinson: Updated Server Install GUI page.

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 * Punt due to time

PENDING ITEM: Windows QA guys

 * [DONE] ACTION: Florian R. will lead discussion on how to encourage Windows QA guys to join our meetings

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 * Basic idea was to get more Windows users into the call
 * ACTION: Joel will go to the user's list and recruit some more Windows users for our team (esp. Win8 users)

PENDING ITEM: Q&A for QA

 * ACTION: Florian R. will lead discussion on proposed call section: Q&A for new triagers

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 * Punt

NEW ITEM: Have a calendar on the wiki in GMT (Robinson)

 * We have a display of the calendar on the wiki in Berlin time - EventsCalendar
 * April 13 - Pinged Marc Pare about changing display time to GMT
 * Page is now in GMT, but events aren't appearing at the right times yet..
 * April 14 - Calendar now displaying in GMT and QA Meetings appearing at the right time (13:00 UTC)
 * Robinson considers this item DONE.

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 * Big thanks to Marc Pare for helping to get this done

NEW ITEM: What to do with releases after EOL (Robinson, Joel)

 * After a release is EOL, there are several things that will change regarding QA.
 * When do we de-list the release versions from the bugtracker?
 * Robinson: I suggest we de-list 6 months after EOL. After that, we tell people filing bugs against the version to put the version # in the summary ("v3.5.6 - Old bug here..")
 * What do we tell people who want tech support? (Do we tell them to upgrade or to go find paid tech support?)
 * Joel would like to hear input from Petr, Bjoern, and Rainer
 * Joel would like to hear input from Petr, Bjoern, and Rainer

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 * Bjoern - Only reason to do anything in a branch after EOL would be a security issue or a major regression in the last point release
 * AGREED: For users inquiring about tech support after the EOL date of a release, we politely indicate that the release is EOL and ask them to upgrade to a new version (or go talk to their vendor/distro/paid tech support)
 * AGREED: We de-list versions in Bugzilla 6 months after the release has been EOLed.
 * ACTION: Robinson will ping the QA list and specifically ask if Petr or Rainer have comments.

NEW ITEM: What to do about dupes when we can't find dupe # (Joel)

 * New whiteboard status? (suspect_dupe)?
 * Just mark as NEW, let dupes remain in system and ignore it
 * Just comment saying "probably a dupe"?

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 * Joel - Could help us to find and collapse duplicate bugs
 * AGREED: Feel free to mark 'NEW', but add a comment at the same time "Marking as NEW because I'm quite sure that this is a dupe" (or etc...)

NEW ITEM: OS Specific Whiteboard Status (Joel)

 * If there is an OS specific bug, should we have new whiteboard stuats "OS-NAME" such as "OS-FEDORA" or "OS-W8"
 * Benefit in queries, Windows (all) not as useful sometimes
 * Relatively rare for a bug like this but they do exist

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 * Bjoern - If a bug is Ubuntu-only, he usually takes it (and marks it as RESOLVED as NOTOURBUG)
 * It would be helpful to be able to create lists of Win8 or WinXP bugs so that they could be
 * Bjoern - If there are 10 bugs or more, perhaps add a whiteboard status.
 * ACTION: Joel will update the whiteboard page with new status for Win8

NEW ITEM: How to deal with Unconfirmed bugs that QA team cannot triage (Joel)

 * There are some bugs that for different reasons the small QA team cannot do (either we don't have the expertise, the exact setup, etc...)
 * Options include - emailing dev list (could be a long wait), cc'ing a dev (also might be a long wait), new whiteboard status for experienced devs to query (another whiteboard status....)
 * This came from bugs such as the set of webdav bugs that are just sitting UNCONFIRMED
 * Without a solution a serious bug might just sit unconfirmed forever

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 * Joel - Sometimes you need specific software or setup (e.g. a special printer, Visio software, etc..) and can't effectively work on the bug without it
 * ACTION: Joel will add a whiteboard status 'NEED EXPERT ADVICE'
 * ACTION: Bjoern will talk about interop licenses
 * - Discussion moved to the potential migration to a locally-hosted installation of Bugzilla:
 * Bjoern - It's not that having a non-FDO Bugzilla is bad, it's that the migration would be very painful, and would need to be synced with releases (Around X.X.3, when bug traffic is as quiet as possible)
 * Joel - Between manpower/money, it's possibly 1 - 1.5 years away
 * ACTION: Robinson will start to investigate what steps would need to happen to migrate each integrated piece for Bugzilla

NEW ITEM: Get French BSA Operational (Robinson)

 * April 18 - Per Floeff, email problems that were plaguing us should be solved.
 * Key people: Rob, Sophie
 * What's the next step?

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 * Per notes in, we can ping Charles and French QA Team to get the ball rolling here
 * Note: See if we can steal some of Rob's time to get any final tech pieces working
 * ACTION: Joel will coordinate next steps of getting FR BSA running
 * Addendum: Jean-Baptiste Faure volunteered as a second contact (along with Sophie) to the french community: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-qa-LibreOffice-QA-Conference-Call-2013-04-19-Agenda-Minutes-tp4051110p4051324.html

New Action Items (Proposed at the Meeting)
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NEW ITEM: Regressions within a release (Bjoern)
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 * Can we address regressions within a minor release (e.g. in the 3.6.x series) and determine if they predate the X.X.0 release?)
 * This would be good for marketing "We only introduced 1 regression in this release series"
 * Method: Go through the list of Regressions with the version marked X.X.1 - X.X.6 (etc..), and bibisect and/or try to repro with the X.X.0 release
 * ACTION: Robinson will talk w/Joel about a game plan to tackle these regressions


 * this is a table showing the regressions in question (with version 3.6.x with x >= 1), probably a good idea to ignore all which are not unresolved or fixed => currently ~55 bugs to check
 * if these are already present in 3.6.0, mark them as version:3.6.0.4 release (they should then disappear from the table)
 * if these are indeed NOT in 3.6.0, it would be nice to hint devs at the issue
 * these seem to be fixed, but NOT fixed in 3.6 -- worth checking if they are all false positives => currently ~8 bugs to check
 * if such a bug is fixed in 3.6, mark the issue as target:3.6.X (they should then disappear from the table)
 * if such a bug is NOT fixed in 3.6, it would be nice to hint devs at the issue

Announcements

 * ANNOUNCEMENT: Our next meeting will take place QA/Meetings/2013/May 3 (Friday) at 13:00 UTC, unless otherwise noted on the QA/Mailing List.

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 * Bjoern might not be able to make the meeting, but will try

End
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 * Meeting adjourned at: 14:50 (long meeting!)

= Topics = (Add topics below and reference them as in the Agenda/Minutes above)