Talk:Feature Comparison: LibreOffice - Microsoft Office

Discussion on feature comparison table that highlights differences vs. feature comparison table that shows complete list of features

 * Suggestion by Timur LOL to include features being supported by both office suites:
 * (cur | prev) 2013-05-27T10:56:08‎ GerryT (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (29,493 bytes) (-168)‎ . . (Presenter view and navigator deleted, because they are supported in both office suites. Comparison table highlights differences between the suites.) (undo) I kindly ask you to reconsider this. If comparison table lists only differences between the suites, then it's not complete and doesn't give a full picture. This is the only page that fully lists LO features, also showing progress done. Now, focus is on MSO, but at some moment, some other suite might be added, OpenOffice or Kingsoft Office or whatever. While there is no need to list some minor features such as "bold, italic supported" which are naturally supported, presenter view is important. Similar with navigator, it's important feature (although probably used by more proficient users). Also, names are different in LO and MSO and this should list them properly. So, I'd ask you to discuss this and accordingly revert this removal.


 * Comment by GerryT:
 * Timur, thank you very much for looking and contributing to the comparison table in the wiki. I think that both, a table focusing on differences only, and a table/list showing all features in comparison are both very important, but also serve different purposes and goals. Please read my long explanation:


 * The aim of this comparison table is actually to highlight the differences and to show where LibreOffice or Microsoft Office are lacking or have the lead over the other office suite, respectively. If you look back in the history of this wiki page, simplicity (including the table formatting with green, yellow and red colour) was chosen and the main objective over a more complex & complete comparison. I think this focus is one of the reasons why the page is relatively "successful" and attracts many visitors (every week it climbs up a few ranks in the list of "popular pages" of the Documentfoundation Wiki); the page also already attracted many bloggers and online zines to "quote" it and refer to it. Serving this purpose, it therefore does not include features supported in both suites, because it wants to give an overview to the users as quick as possible. This also resulted in the fact that when LibreOffice gained feature parity with MS Office for a particular feature (e.g. features added in version 4.0 or now in 4.1), the row is being deleted from the table. This is an advantage (highlighting existing differences in a compact manner) and a disadvantage (completeness) at the same time.


 * I fully agree with you that it makes absolute sense to also have complete feature tables (in the best world, also comparing to other office suites than Microsoft Office), but I think it is rather a different project/task and I suggest for this a different format as well. The reason is that (1) listing all features is a massive undertaking and the entire list will be very very long (e.g. it needs to display the dozens of file formats supported by both suites and the 300+ functions supported in the spreadsheets); and (2) for most users the differences count more than the features supported by both suites. Hence, I suggest to revive and update the full comparison document which had been prepared for OpenOffice.org 2.x; something like a comprehensive feature comparison as new part of LibreOffice documentation and to add it to the LibreOffice documentation/publications and also to link it in this page above the comparison table highlighting the differences of the suites. I think such a complete and comprehensive comparison that you suggest is very important as complete reference and of particular importance for decision makers, but it will be not as eye-catching as this table here. It serves a different purpose.


 * The document I mean is this one: Ms2007vsooo2.odt (It also existed in German language). Based on this document, I started already making some changes in the past, but they were never complete (see here: Ms2010vsooo33-v03-started.odt). I think it is a very good start and also not too difficult to bring this document up-to-date. What do you think?


 * The original document is licensed in the Public Documentation License. This means it is allowed to make changes as long as the author and origin of file is mentioned. For details, please read the license.


 * Additional comment on 1st of June 2013 by GerryT: Parking items for complete comparison here: Talk:Feature Comparison: LibreOffice - Microsoft Office/full-comparison-table

Questions regarding feature comparison tables

 * Q: Is there something like Presenter Screen in MS-Office-Powerpoint ?
 * A: Sure. Check http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/powerpoint-help/what-is-presenter-view-HA010360578.aspx?CTT=5&origin=HA010067383


 * Q: Is it correct that LibreOffice Writer/Calc/Impress don't support XML import / export?
 * A: No it is not correct. See the menu File > Save As... you have several kinds of xml, fodt, MS-Office xml. That said ODF is itself based on xml.
 * Q: The question of Generic XML import / export seems to be a bit tricky to me. Maybe you can help. Currently in the comparison table, following is written: Writer: Import (generic XML) yes, Export no ; Calc: Import (generic XML) yes, Export no ; Impress: Import data from  (generic) XML, HTML: No ; In all three applications, both import and export of generic XML seems to be supported in MS Office. I think this is correct. What do you think?
 * A: I do not know what does mean "generic xml". I think that a reference is needed to prove and describe what is supported by MS-Office behind this expression.
 * Q: In terms of MS Word and MS Powerpoint, I am not sure what generic XML means as they do not seem to allow for something like XML tag mapping or the like.
 * LO Writer: Export "Writer Layout XML" Import: "OpenDocument Flat XML"
 * MS Word import: "XML files .xml". Export: "Word XML .xml"
 * LO Impress: no explicit XML import or export
 * MS Powerpoint import and export "Powerpoint XML presentations .xml"
 * LO Calc: Data -> "XML source". Not generic XML export
 * MS Excel import "XML files .xml". Export "XML data .xml" -> See: http://office.microsoft.com/en-gb/excel-help/export-xml-data-HP010206401.aspx
 * Tentative conclusion: The XML support in Excel seems to be really some usable feature. LO Calc also has XML import, but no export. Hence here, Excel has an advantage which IMHO should be reflected in the comparison table. With regards to Word and Powerpoint, I do not know whether the XML support is something useful (i.e. whether it is superior to LibreOffice). If you agree, I would delete the XML import/export row for word processing in the comparison table. (there is none for presentation software)? What do you mean?
 * I did this now: Removed XML entry from word processor comparison. Please revert if you don't agree -- GerryT (talk) 2014-09-21T06:02:39 (UTC)

Microsoft implemented quite a few new bibliographic features in Office 2007+. They are much more limited than e.g. Zotero, but I think that they are ahead of LO Writer. MS Word supports 14 citation styles (e.g. APA, Harvard,...). The usability seems to be quite straight forward. I cannot really test it, because MS Word 2010 in Wine crashes with the bibliographic features :-) For example, I am not sure whether one of the citation styles is a footnote-type style or only in-text citation styles.
 * Q: About "Bibliographic features", is correct to promote closed source/commercial sw like Endnote etc? I suggest to link only extensions like JabRef (GPLv2)
 * A: okay
 * Q: About "Bibliographic features", what does mean "basic inbuilt support"? In other words what bibliographic features MS-Word has that LO has not? The only real lack I know in the bibliographic function of LO is that you have to create the citation style yourself for each document. Use of a standard citation styles database is the main plus of the Zotero citation extensions for LO _and_ MS-Word.
 * A: Thanks for the question. I tried out Writer's bibliographic features a while ago and I found them quite limited. There is no possibility to set a citation style, besides simple numbering, e.g. [1] or with [Short name]. As far as I know there is no possibility to set a real citation style and there seems to be no possibility to have a footnote citation style. I had a quick look at the Writer Manual from page 354.

Discussion on necessary changes to feature comparison tables due to incorrect/incomplete information

 * Portable version that runs on USB flash disks (without installation). Microsoft Office Starter 2010 edition only using Microsoft Office Starter To-Go Device Manager. Check http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/starter-help/take-office-starter-with-you-HA010380216.aspx
 * Thanks for the info. Is this also usable for users of other MS Office 2010 editions? The Office Starter edition is not available anymore (please see second bullet point).
 * Only Starter edition.
 * Availability free of charge: Only as trial software.Free, ad-supported Microsoft Office Starter 2010 edition consisting of limited-functionality versions of Word and Excel is available to OEMs to preinstall on new computers. Check http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/starter-help/introduction-to-office-starter-2010-HA101886942.aspx?CTT=1
 * According to PCPro, Microsoft stopped the Office starter edition. They rather want people to use the Online-version.
 * Well, as you can read phasing out just started atm and won't be available for Windows 8 computers. Remember that there are plenty Windows 7 PCs/netbooks still on sale with Starter edition included as a marketing bonus. Also people who use Office Starter 2010 today will continue to be able to use the product for the life of their PC.
 * added info to table. Please check wording there.
 * I think the trial should not be considered to be a real "free" version, because it is limited to 30 days of usage.
 * True, but such version IMHO should be mentioned to clear things out.
 * added info to table. Please check wording there.
 * Programming interfaces: Visual Basic for Applications (VBA), Visual Basic or Visual C#. SDKs and APIs are available for developing solutions and customizing Office applications.
 * In fact, the statement was quite ambigous in the table. I changed wording. Please cross-check. Is the statement in the table now correct when it refers to "Macro scripting languages"? Is it correct that for Macro programming only VBA is possible and only indirectly Visual c#?
 * Open erroneous .doc files: Microsoft Word automatically uses the Open and Repair feature if Word detects a problem with a document when you open it. However, you can force Word to use the Open and Repair feature when you open any document.
 * There are reports that OpenOffice/LibreOffice is more tolerant importing erroneous .doc files than MS Office. For example, it was stated in the German quality computer magazine c't, but quickly I could only find this here: 1 So far, I added a "Needs citation" in the table.
 * I would not underline this "tolerant" mode when LO has serious problems with reading/writing Office files anyway (lots of issues reported).
 * changed wording in table. Please check wording there.
 * Automatically create a presentation out of AutoAbstract. Send to Microsoft Powerpoint function. Check http://www.addictivetips.com/microsoft-office/directly-send-word-2010-document-to-powerpoint-2010/
 * Thanks. Apparently it is one of the hidden features in Word 2010. I removed the row "Automatically create a presentation out of AutoAbstract" from the features table.

Another batch

 * Localization, Changing language of the user interface on the fly:
 * Office 2010 is available in 96 languages
 * http://blogs.office.com/b/office_blog/archive/2011/02/21/office-2010-and-windows-7-available-in-96-languages.aspx


 * 37 localized versions of Office 2010 for purchase
 * 59 native free Language Interface Packs for download (58 are indeed available (GerryT))

-> Now changed in table (GerryT)

-> additional options in LibreOffice: Detailed image settings, watermarks, HybridPDF, Embed standard fonts, PDF forms, permission settings, initial view settings, extended handling of URLs, digital signatures (GerryT)
 * PDF export - few options - Those should be enlisted as LO's for direct comparison.

Word processors: LibreOffice Writer vs. Microsoft Word


 * Styles (page ~, (hierarchic) paragraph ~, character ~, frame ~, and list ~) - Styles are supported, should be enlisted for direct comparison.


 * Examples:


 * http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-word/archive/2009/06/25/multilevel-lists-and-list-styles.aspx
 * http://office.microsoft.com/en-au/word-help/style-basics-in-word-HA102647012.aspx?CTT=1
 * http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-word/archive/2011/08/25/using-styles-quick-and-easy.aspx
 * http://office.microsoft.com/en-au/word-help/save-a-word-document-as-a-template-HA101868862.aspx?CTT=5&origin=HA010237355
 * http://office.microsoft.com/en-au/word-help/add-a-building-block-to-a-gallery-HA010202673.aspx?CTT=5&origin=HA101868862
 * http://office.microsoft.com/en-au/word-help/save-a-word-document-as-a-template-HA101868862.aspx?CTT=5&origin=HA010237355
 * http://office.microsoft.com/en-au/word-help/add-a-building-block-to-a-gallery-HA010202673.aspx?CTT=5&origin=HA101868862
 * http://office.microsoft.com/en-au/word-help/add-a-building-block-to-a-gallery-HA010202673.aspx?CTT=5&origin=HA101868862
 * http://office.microsoft.com/en-au/word-help/add-a-building-block-to-a-gallery-HA010202673.aspx?CTT=5&origin=HA101868862

-> I think the table is correct with the exception of table styles which are supported in MS Office, but not in LibreOffice. (GerryT)

--> Well, so what is this Styles comparison about then? I can define my own list styles, apply whole page styles in Word. Different terminology? ---> In fact, there might be some terminology issue. Styles have always been the strenghts of OpenOffice/LibreOffice. It is the more shocking that MS Office actually has quite nice table styles and LibreOffice not. With regards to page styles, frame styles, character styles, paragraph styles and list styles, I refer to the features in "Format" -> "Styles and Formatting". Having had a second look at MS Word 2010, there is an equal feature set (maybe not as consistent as in LO) on paragraph styles and character styles. Pages styles and frame styles are not supported in Word. For list styles, there is IMHO also no clear equivalent. (GerryT)


 * Overlining of text
 * Not as an option but possible: http://word.tips.net/T000268_Overlining_Characters.html

-> I integrated it in table (GerryT)


 * Label / business card wizard - Mail merge/new label creator available.
 * Examples:
 * http://www.devicemag.com/2010/10/20/how-to-create-mail-merge-labels-in-word-2010/
 * http://barcodewiz.com/user-manual/Activex-Control/create_barcode_labels_with_word_2010_mail_merge.aspx
 * http://barcodewiz.com/user-manual/Activex-Control/create_barcode_labels_with_word_2010_mail_merge.aspx

-> Table is now changed (GerryT)


 * Text auto completion of words already used before
 * User defined only - http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/add-autotext-in-word-HA101827969.aspx?CTT=1

-> AutoText also exists in LibreOffice. It does not replace the text auto completion feature in LibreOffice (GerryT)

-> There are only 22 supported languages for grammar check - http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/language-packs/proofing-tools-for-office-language-packs-FX101828851.aspx (GerryT) - thanks for checking this out
 * Grammar check - 37 languages supported with additional costs

-> The wizard in LibreOffice does more than just the serial letter feature (GerryT)
 * Wizard to create personalized letter templates - Use mail merge to create and print letters and other documents

-> I had a second look at Word 2010 and Writer 4.0. The features to insert any database fields (incl. address books) and to synchronize content are only available in LibreOffice. On the other hand, MS Word can only connect to Outlook address books. (GerryT)
 * Extended label creation features - supported vs partial = so what is not supported then?

-> I agree, but MS Office 2013 is not yet out. It is available on WindowsRT in a preview versions and for PCs there were also preview versions, but there is currently no way to look at the final version for PCs. It is scheduled for Q1 2013. LibreOffice 4 is now out as release candidate 2 and scheduled for the 10th of February so there shouldn't be any changes anymore.
 * Anyway, IMHO latest LibreOfffice 4.0 should be compared to latest Office 2013 Edition.

--> Seems you can buy it already as a download - http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/store/?CTT=97, not mentioning that 60-day trial is available at Technet since November - http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/jj192782.aspx

---> Yes, end users can buy it since 29th of January 2013. Please see below, I am collecting information on the improvements in Office 13 which will be added to the main table. I would be glad if you could add info, in case something important is missing.

---> FYI. At this time (Summer 2014), one can no longer buy Office 2013, per se. You can buy a download but no disc(s) (except maybe from eBay LOL). M$ is firmly headed in the rent-only, web-only direction.

Scribble area for new features in MS Office 2013
General:
 * Save to Sharepoint, OneDrive (Are there really improvements over Office 2010 ??? - GerryT)
 * Partial: Usage on touch screen devices. DONE

Word:
 * PDF Import. DONE
 * Better reading features. DONE
 * Collapse and expand parts of a document. DONE
 * Reply to comments. DONE (comparison removed because LibreOffice was already able to do so)
 * Improved collaboration features. Working on same document if saved on Sharepoint or OneDrive. (Are there really improvements over Office 2010 ??? - GerryT)

Excel:
 * http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/new-functions-in-excel-2013-HA103980604.aspx
 * Quick analysis feature. DONE (is it really an advantage??? - GerryT)
 * Flash fill. DONE (is it really an advantage??? - GerryT)
 * Chart recommendations. DONE (is it really helpful??? - GerryT)
 * 'Publishing' spreadsheet for online team meetings. DONE

Powerpoint
 * Very much improved commenting features / Reply to comments. DONE
 * New video standards: MP4, MOV with H.264-Video as well as AAC-Audio (Advanced Audio Coding). DONE https://office.microsoft.com/en-us/powerpoint-help/video-and-audio-file-formats-supported-in-powerpoint-HA102820008.aspx?CTT=5&origin=HA102809628
 * Collaboration features. Working on same presentation. DONE

Access

Removed features:
 * Support only for Windows 7 and 8. Mac OS X Version remains in old version Office 2011. DONE
 * http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc178954%28v=office.15%29.aspx DONE

65534 characters
This limit is not just a paragraph's limit. It's a file limit. I deleted some letters in the attached file of bug report and pressed Enter (at least twice). If I entered some letters again, Writer still crashed.

-> Thanks for your observation. Can you please add your comment also to the bug report. It will help developers to fix this limitation. However, it seems to be difficult to get rid of this limitation.


 * OUTDATED : since LibreOffice 4.3 the 64k limit is gone, see ReleaseNotes/4.3 --erAck (talk) 2014-09-12T20:19:43 (UTC)

Add other suites to compare?
What do you think about adding other office suites to this comparison table?

E.g. Apache OpenOffice Kingsoft Office (a promising one!) cf. http://www.kingsoftstore.com/news/3244-kingsoft-office-writer-vs-open-office-writer.html

It would provide greater, less application-biased context.


 * Answer by GerryT: Thanks Eresus for starting work at comparing office suites. The wiki page "Feature Comparison: LibreOffice - Microsoft Office" has a clear focus: It aims at comparing differences between the two office suites. It compares only differences, because this approach allows a compact, concise and clear representation of the differences. It compares to MS Office, because this is the main "competitor" and if people make a switch, they usually come from MS Office. Furthermore, news sites and magazines usually focus on the comparison of LibreOffice with MS Office. These are the objectives of this wiki page. What you aim for is something described in the first section of this Talk page "Discussion on...". To compare multiple office suites, you need the full-comparison approach (listing all features which are available in at least one of the compared office suites, including the features which are present in all office suites). A wiki page would be very long (although not impossible), but maybe an alternative format as suggested in the first section of this talk page might be a good idea. Please have a look at the above linked Ms2007vsooo2.odt. This could be a start. What do you think?

Calc/Excel formula length
When copying formulas from Excel/Google Spreadsheet I keep hitting a wall with a part of the formula disappearing. There seems to be no character limit - it's some other factor I haven't been able to figure out. Anyone know what this is about? Khokkanen (talk) 2013-08-15T16:04:30 (UTC)


 * Thanks Khokkanen for your question. I suggest you to ask the question to http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/questions/ There you will get more answers.


 * The specific issue I was having seems to have been fixed in the latest release. This is good. I also found out that the limit is currently 512 tokens. I wonder what is the limit in Excel (for comparison purposes)? Khokkanen (talk) 2013-08-16T03:06:36 (UTC)


 * The limit was 1,024 characters in Office 2003 and has increased to 8,192 in Office 2013 (http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/excel-specifications-and-limits-HA103980614.aspx). I'm guessing the virus writers found 1,024 to be too limiting for their needs? LOL Ttocsmij (talk) 2014-08-28T19:51:59 (UTC)


 * The maximum number of tokens in Calc was raised to 8192 already in LibreOffice 4.0. Note that tokens in LibreOffice Calc and Microsoft Excel are different and the maximum count is not directly comparable. --erAck (talk) 2014-09-12T20:36:06 (UTC)

Is the entry wrong on UNION Queries in LibreOffice Base?

 * According to the comparison table, Union queries are not supported by LibreOffice Base. I think this information is not correct. They are supported: Please see http://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=7570 or http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=68047. Is there any reason not to remove the statement that LO does not support union queries?
 * After a few days of waiting, I made the change on the page. If you think this is wrong, please revert it and tell why.

Privacy
In LibreOffice we could delet easly, proprietes of document (Files -> Proprietes, in the end of tab General, we could see Apply user data and Reset). In this proprietes we could found some informations about the authors, the date, the organisation. For some people, this information should not be in a document. For others, it's good things for the versionning.

With collaboration edition, this informations is the fondation of versionning. I don't know if MS Office 2013 easly delet it or not. But it's a subjet of anxiety: http://www.myce.com/news/microsoft-onedrive-for-business-modifies-files-as-it-syncs-71168/ http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/aa543341%28v=office.14%29.aspx TDF should keep an eye on this, for ODF 1.3 (which work on tracking specification and collaboration): http://www.osb-alliance.de/en/working-groups/projekte/major-features-in-loaoo/ --Vulcain (talk) 2014-04-30T06:52:53 (UTC)
 * Hi Vulcain,
 * Yes, it's the same in Office 2013 (Captions are freely translated from German, dunno if these are named in en-US GUI same.)
 * I can't say anything about the OneDrive problem, but that sounds very interesting!
 * Regards,
 * Dennis Roczek (talk) 2014-04-30T07:44:48 (UTC)

Envelope
I don't really understand the latest addition about the printing of envelopes (I must admit I actually never use that feature). I checked this out and this is perfectly possible in LibreOffice writer as insert > insert envelope (see also: http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/4643/envelope-printing-the-easy-way/). Regards --Kerwyn (talk) 2014-08-28T19:25:56 (UTC)

I checked LibreOffice and MS Word 2010 and I think I agree with Kerwyn. In LibreOffice Envelopes work via Insert -> Insert envelope. Labels work via File -> New -> Labels. I don't see any advantage of MS Word here. Did I oversee anything? If not, I would be in favor of removing this addition on printing envelopes. Side note: Currently, there is even an entry in the table on "Extended label creation features" where Writer excels MS Word. Is this alright? GerryT


 * Haven't had an opportunity to print envelopes from my wife's laptop (where LO is installed) as of yet. I glanced through the menus briefly before returning it to her. I did see Insert » Insert Envelope but assumed it was similar to Word's similar command that actually _adds_ a new page to the existing document which one can fill in manually or add database fields ... but the document is still multipage and will print all pages unless one goes to the additional steps of selecting only the envelope "page" and then specifically the envelope printer*. Word's Tools » Envelopes and Labels is so easy. Select the address or content you want on the envelope. Click on Tools » Envelopes... and up pops a dialogue box which already has the recipient's content ready, your return address ready, and click print and go. It knows all about envelopes, their sizes, how to print on the orientation for the selected printer, etc.. The whole thing takes 30 seconds tops and you don't have to re-type anything or do any special selections. And it isn't taking up space embedded in your document. HAVING said all that, I will try to find some time this weekend to try out LO's Insert » Insert Envelope feature and report back here. Ttocsmij (talk) 2014-08-30T16:02:41 (UTC)


 * * Most new printers cannot reliably handle envelopes because of their "wrap around the platen" feed systems so I have kept my trusty old Canon S820 -- a gravity feed printer -- and created an envelope guide for the infeed tray. I tried envelopes on my lasers (HP and Brother) and on my Epson Artisan 835 All-In-One ... miserable results at best. A couple years back I suggested to Epson tech support that they could modify the code a little and allow feeding from the rear (where they already have an opening for the duplexer). It would be a no-brainer to offer a straight-through feed capability. They must have liked the idea since they're now offering that feature on newer printers. Sadly, they didn't offer to update my firmware for that. o.O
 * Well, could you maybe try this on LibreOffice? If this functionality is missing, then maybe you should add an enhancement request and link it on this page. Regards --Kerwyn (talk) 2014-08-31T18:17:25 (UTC)
 * I just saw that you're checking this out this weekend. I must've missed your last comments, I'm eager to to see the reults! -- Kerwyn (talk) 2014-08-31T18:20:28 (UTC)
 * I removed the entry for now from the comparison table. If you have done the comparison between the features in MS Word 2010/2013 and LO Writer 4.3, please report it back here. If you disagree, please re-add it to the comparison table. I added what I took out here as comment in the wiki source code. -- GerryT (talk) 2014-09-21T06:11:09 (UTC)

Spreadsheet functions : functions unique to Calc
I translate this comparison in French, so I have to translate the functions. There are some problems and something probably wrong in the list of functions.

1- They are missing functions in LibreOffice for Windows : GOALSEEK, MVALUE and NEG

2- GOALSEEK exists in Excel

3- MULTIPLE.OPERATIONS is not a function but more a feature and can't be find in the functions menu of Calc. Ysabeau (talk) 2014-09-10T14:01:03 (UTC)
 * 1 - Do you mean these functions aren't present in Libreoffice Calc on Windows? My LibreOffice version isn't an English one as well, so I can't really search for it in Calc. I checked out the the detailed comparison, and these three funtions aren't present on there, so maybe something is wrong indeed.
 * 2 - I don't have an Excel version on this pc to check this, but Goal Seek seems indeed to be a function on Excel (link where Goal Seek is used). I support the suggestion to remove it from the list of functions unique to Calc.
 * 3- I can't find this on de detailed comparison spreadsheet either. So maybe you are right again. --Kerwyn (talk) 2014-09-10T18:34:21 (UTC)

1 - Yes, *we* (with Windows PC) can't find them. I asked on the fr-discuss list to verify. Oh, a tips to see the name of the function in you non-English favourite language: set you LibO in English (you'llhave to quit and to re-open LibO), open a Calc file, add the functions you want to have in cells, save the file, close it. Then turn your LibO in your favourite language again and open the Calc file: the functions are in your favourite language. An easy and fast way to translate them.

I do not know about MacOS, it's probably something to verify too.

Someone asked me if "NEG" won't be a suffix of functions like in LOI.BINOMIALE and LOI.BINOMIALE.NEG? I'll ask again on the list for more details to Linux owners.

2 - Goal seek is on Excel since years (in French "Valeur cible"). And it is in the tools of Calc (that is why I didn't find it), so it is not exactly a function but... a feature. I'll delete it in the French translation. 3 - I'll delete MULTIPLE.OPERATIONS from the French translation. Will wait for other information though. -- Ysabeau (talk) 2014-09-10T19:07:11 (UTC)


 * A comprehensive comparison of spreadsheet functions between Calc and Excel is in the works (should be almost done), which will be helpful for this discussion. Please contact Zeki Bildirici, zeki.ozguryazilim[at]gmail.com, as he has the last version of the spreadsheet function comparison table. -- GerryT (talk) 2014-09-11T05:45:03 (UTC)

The main problem is not the differences between LibreOffice and Excel, but the fact that there are functions that are in Calc for Linux and that doesn't exist in Calc for Windows! -- Ysabeau (talk) 2014-09-11T06:48:20 (UTC)

That is not true, there is no difference between Linux/MacOSX/Windows regarding the availability of Calc spreadsheet functions. However, in all versions there are --erAck (talk) 2014-09-12T20:12:11 (UTC)
 * MULTIPLE.OPERATIONS : Is not offered in the UI Function Wizard but the result of applying on a range and the formula cells are stored as such when saved.
 * GOALSEEK : Is not offered in the UI Function Wizard, the function version is not supported, the reason is that to calculate the result the target cell would need to be modified, which obviously is not a good idea to do within a spreadsheet function. When loading an Excel document GOALSEEK is recognized as valid function name but a formula expression using it produces an error.
 * MVALUE : Is an internal function not offered in the UI Formula Wizard to obtain a value from an existing matrix/array cell.
 * NEG : Is a compatibility function (IIRC dating back to ancient Excel and Lotus-1-2-3 versions) not offered in the UI Formula Wizard that simply applies a unary negation, e.g. NEG(x) equals -x

I finally translated it in a way more honest and more precise for the user. Explaining that MULTIPLE.OPERATIONS is a feature that we can access in Data, that MVALUE and NEG are not in the list of functions of the Wizard and that GOALSEEK exists in Excel but does not work well. -- Ysabeau (talk) 2014-09-16T14:00:49 (UTC)
 * I guess this is the corresponding Goal Seek bug then?: Maybe this can be added as well. --Kerwyn (talk) 2014-09-17T17:41:36 (UTC)

Commentary
Someone posted this comment on the LibreOffice facebook page, but I don't use conditional text. Anyone knows if he's correct?:
 * Fine comparison, but I discovered a small error. You say that conditional text is not possible in MS Word. But there is the IF field function, which is often used in mail merges. There is even a wizard for this function. You can write { IF { MERGEFIELD gender } = "m" "Mr." { IF { MERGEFIELD gender } = "f" "Ms." "Sir or Madam" } } Of course this also works out of the mail merge function.

Regards --Kerwyn (talk) 2015-08-25T06:01:47 (UTC)


 * I don't know whether Word now has a conditional text feature comparable to LibreOffice Writer. Here is some information, too: http://support.drawloop.com/lds/document-help/word/conditional-text What do you think? Is the feature similar? -- GerryT
 * I added some more information (links) in the comparison table and also increased Word to "partial". However, I am not sure whether the Writer feature is actually superior. What do you think? If the features are equal, we need to remove the entry from the table, because it is then supported in both office suites. (and move it to https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Talk:Feature_Comparison:_LibreOffice_-_Microsoft_Office/full-comparison-table which is the dump for the *not-yet-existing* full comparison table)
 * Hi Gerry, as soon as I have some spare time and acces to MS Word i'll test this out! Best regards. --Kerwyn (talk) 2015-09-03T19:38:35 (UTC)

Microsoft Office 2016
There is now new version of Microsoft Office out. Would it be a good idea to start updating the table to reflect Microsoft Office 2016 rather 2013? I personally think we should compare LibreOffice with the most up-to-date MS Office available.
 * Yes, you are right. I have it on my to do list, but didn't have time yet to do the update to Office 2016. Happily enough, there are not too many changes in Office 2016 which affect this table. What I remember at the moment is some more information on the collaborative editing, on new chart types in Excel, on the new search help system (Clippy^2), some very few new Excel formulas, and few other things... Feel free to go ahead or wait until I have time in approx. 2 weeks from now -- GerryT
 * Awesome. I unfortunately do not have access to MS Word 2016. If I did, would probably work on it.

OOXML files on old Microsoft Office
IMHO LibreOffice supports .docx files and so on better than Microsoft Office. In fact, on many old versions of Windows/Office, OOXML files can't be opened at all and LibreOffice is the only option to open them (apart from OpenOffice of course). Someone who knows the exact versions should add this information on the "major features" table. Nemo bis (talk) 2016-02-01T08:35:13 (UTC)

Extension eco-system
>complex ecosystem of valuable extensions (over 290 on extensions.libreoffice.org and over 790 on extensions.services.openoffice.org) for LibreOffice (including automatic updates).

a) How many of those 290 LibO and 790 AOo extensions were released/updated after 1 Janaury 2013? For all practical purposes, extensions released prior to that date, at best, do not install. At worst, they install, but do not function as expected. Would it be possible to do quarterly/semi-annual/annual updates, that drops extensions released more than three years earlier, adding a hatnote stating that these number only reflect extensions less than three years old. If/when/as Microsoft expands its extension store, those numbers can be included here;

b) In browsing the LibO and AOo extension pages, a significant number (Spelling checking: 92 for LibO, 159 for AOo; Other Language Tools: 27 for LibO, 14 for AOo) are for spelling, grammar checking, etc. For MSO, these are distributed as part of their language packs, and as such, this is somewhat misleading. Suggested solution is to segregate out Language Tools, listing them exclusively under "Additional writing aids".

Entries with no corresponding bug reports
A few entries where LibreOffice is lacking functionality compared to Microsoft Office have no corresponding bug report. Shouldn't there be a bug report on these? Some of thee entries might already be present in the Bugzilla.

Also under LO base 5.3 under minor differences there's an entry about SharePoint weblists, I don't know if there 's a connection with bug ? Maybe this got solved too? --Kerwyn (talk) 2017-05-10T18:23:23 (UTC)


 * There should be a report, so please create reports for any that are lacking them. --Beluga (talk) 2017-05-10T18:52:37 (UTC)

Documents for Microsoft's implementations
In the following resources we can see how does Microsoft Office implemented for OOXML and ODF formats, thus we can know how does Microsoft did and make further improves on this page. --Kitaygrad (talk) 2019-02-24T03:35:57 (UTC)
 * Word, Excel, and PowerPoint Standards Support

Should be row "Styles (page styles, frame styles, list styles)" corrected?
Should be row "Styles (page styles, frame styles, list styles)" corrected? Word has a list styles: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/define-new-bullets-numbers-and-multilevel-lists-6c06ef65-27ad-4893-80c9-0b944cb81f5f#style
 * Thanks, I'll change this in the table (I remove "list styles" from the entry, because both office suites support it). GerryT

Include mobile and online comparisons in a more structured way
Where there are mobile and online comparisons they can be misleading. Here are some thoughts for how this could be improved, what do others think? edit this as you like. --Mars (talk) 2021-04-13T01:37:59 (UTC) Or
 * A) Restrict the table to desktop, such as Windows, macOS, Linux.
 * B) Include mobile and online, but in a more structured way. Reason: Many people use mobile and online nowadays, I think this is very important to include.
 * Structure: "mobile" is not good enough as apps vary in functionality between phones and tablet sizes. Also the term "mobile" could mean iOS, Android and/or their variants iPadOS and Chrome OS or just one or two of these. Likewise if "online" functionality varies between screen sizes then "online" alone is not OK. How about these categories: Windows, Linux, macOS, Chrome OS, Android smartphone, Android tablet, iPhone, iPad, online smartphone, online tablet, online desktop (perhaps the latter 2 do not vary?). Hmmm, a lot of variations :-)
 * Should Collabora products be included?
 * A user researching whether to use LibreOffice would want to be know that Collabora fills some of the blanks, but a TDF engineer wanting to compare LibreOffice only would find this is just noise. Is the target audience for engineers or users?
 * Chrome OS outsold macOS in 2020, TDF do not have an app, a Collabora Office Chrome OS app exists, I think this is useful to know.
 * Collabora apps for iOS, Android, ChromeOS, (and also online) differ significantly in functionality relative to the main competition, I think knowing about these differences is useful to know.
 * If done, how to achieve this:
 * Adding more columns, could be difficult to read as too wide, also it is not relevant to most rows, only advantage is it would help maintain a better structure.
 * Adding paragraphs within a row as is done now, this means cells cannot be categorised with yes/partial/no.
 * Adding more rows within a row for each category (for where useful), can this be done whilst keeping the first cell row merged for the desc? This could lose some structure with time.
 * There would be so many blanks due to the inability of people to check all the variations, so would need to standardise the use of the word "unknown" or similar.

Edit: Added the following thoughts --Mars (talk) 2021-08-17T01:44:28 (UTC)
 * Should an Android app that runs on Chrome OS say it supports Chrome OS instead of Chromebooks? ...as Chrome OS runs on a variety of devices: Chromebooks, Chromeboxes, Chromebases (AiO), Chromebits (stick PCs) and Chromebook tablets.
 * iPadOS is iOS optimised for things like multitasking capabilities and keyboard use, some iOS apps make use these iPadOS only optimisations. Should we be saying optimised for iPadOS if an application has been optimised for it?
 * Likewise Android apps that run on Chrome OS have sometimes been optimised for Chrome OS bigger screens, keyboards, file management, etc. Should we be saying optimised for Chrome OS if an application has been optimised for it?

Microsoft to drop support for Office Android apps on Chrome OS In September 2021
Link to a news article The news suggests the reason for this is that Microsoft historically restricts functionality of its Office suite on mobile apps on larger screens, usually requiring users to subscribe to its Office 365 – now Microsoft 365; However the change for Chrome OS applies to all users. Opinion: There appears to be more reasons, perhaps the threat of the exploding market-growth of Chrome OS; Chrome OS outsold Apple Macs in 2020 and is projected to do so for 2021 as well, Apples market-share grew too, they both grew at the expense of Windows. This move may also be intended to hinder the transition of Android tablets to becoming Chrome OS tablets. Chrome OS has devices with large screens and for mobile tablets too, a powerful offline app for these devices may be becoming a more significant advantage of LibreOffice(Collabora). --Mars (talk) 2021-08-27T11:15:55‎ (UTC)

Move Chromebook section from Desktop office category to Online office category, or not!
Microsoft abandoned their Chromebook app in Sep 2021, so Microsoft now want Chromebook users to switch to the Windows OS, the only other option is for Chromebook users who want Microsoft Office is to subscribe to their Online version, but this is Telly Tubby basic; How can the experience between Microsoft Office and LibreOffice on Chromebooks be compared in the wiki?
 * It is logical for Chromebooks to be in the Desktops category, but a disadvantage is that most rows will become partial because Chromebook apps and the web offerings rarely support what is already listed.
 * From some perspectives it now makes sense to move Chromebooks to the Online section seeing as this is the only category that Microsoft have an offering for Chromebooks, a second advantage is that most of the functionality in the Libreoffice (Collabora) Chromebook app is actually the same as in their Online Office. The Collabora app is not Online, so the category would need to be renamed.

Moving/moved Chromebooks to Web/Online section
For the following reasons it is logical to move Chromebooks to the Web/Online section, I will do this soon and I will clear up a few Chromebook related entries in the desktop section, let me know if you disagree. I expect this change will mostly be changes to the headings. --Mars (talk) 2021-10-23T08:06:32 (UTC)
 * 1) In Sept 2021 Microsoft abandoned their Office App for Chromebooks leaving their Microsoft Office for the Web as the only way to get Microsoft Office on a Chromebook.
 * 2) Collabora Office for Chromebooks is currently the only version of LibreOffice available for Chromebooks (I believe).
 * 3) Collabora Office for Chromebooks is actually the Online version optimised and packaged as an App for Chromebooks, they have nearly identical features.