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Dec 01, 2014; 11:22 AM Jan Holesovsky-4
Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-11-26

* Present: Alex, Cor, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Stuart 
* Completed Action Items: 
    + Kendy: Sidebar - hide the decks, but keep the sidebar (only the 
      icons) there.
      + added to release notes 
    + Kendy: Create Easy Hack for layering (if it does not 
      exist yet) 
        + Did it myself in the end, it was not that easy Easy Hack 
    + Kendy: Create Easy Hack for downloading additional themes? 
        + Not really suitable for an Easy Hack either :-( 
        + but this could help (in the long run): 

     + Jay: Close bug 86302 as wontfix 
     + Jay: Move the Impress & Calc 'Header and Footer' entries to 
       Insert menu to be consistent 
* Pending Action Items: 
    + Kendy: GSoC task (or so) for converting "Manage Changes..." to 
      sidebar (instead of non-modal dialog) - proof of concept, 
      thanks to the hackfest :-) 
    + Kendy: Adjust alignment and spacing in line spacing drop down
    + Samuel: Add Close menu entry in the sidebar's menu that acts like 
      View -> Sidebar toggle
    + Kendy: Do / find someone / easy-hack-ize automatic opening of the 
      Track changes toolbar when there are tracking changes 
    + Ahmed: Push the new Sifr icons he's done recently 
    + Kendy: Check how hard it is to make sidebar honor the icon size 
    + Kendy: Easy Hack-ize fixing of uno commands that need to be 
      duplicated in Draw and Impress 
    + Jay: add a Styles usability improvements section + list the 
      various things to implement to GSoC-next ideas 
          [styles previews in the sidebar etc.] 
        + Ahmed, Jay: Brainstorm about some nice / more styles for Calc 

          [longer term - maybe better to add to the GSoC Styles task?] 
    + Kendy: Talk to Milos wrt.
* UI changes integrated the last week: 
    + Hide the decks but keep the sidebar (only the icons) there (Kendy) 
        + opens in Calc in master, but not in 4.4 
        + should be done for 4.4 too, as some icons were removed from 
          the toolbar that are in sidebar only 
AI          + enable Calc too 
    + Image themes layering - the themes do not need to contain all the 
      icons any more (Kendy) 
        + saves installation image size 
        + could be folded to Tango 
    + Icons are being added but slowly due to long waitings on gerrit 
AI      + push access for Jay (Kendy) 
* Last week's discussions that need a resolution: 
    + Shrinking the size of the context menu in Impress (Jay, Cor)
        + we have just to many of them (Jay) 
            + does not even fit the screen - 24 entries! 
        + some are duplicated in the toolbar (Jay) 
        + smaller context menu preferred (Jay) 
            + we can do submenus, etc. 
        + do we have some indications of that in the 2009 data? (Kendy) 
            + will check (Jay) 
            + some of that in the sidebar too (Jay) 
            + unfortunately we do not have separate stats for images and 
              objects (Jay) 
        + caution needed - we are still introducing the sidebar, need to 
          make the users comfortable (Stuart) 
            + challenge here - not to make users angry :-) (Stuart) 
            + better to make functionality easier than document wrong 
              behavior (Heiko) 
                + would be good to have a guideline (Heiko) 
                + so far used: if it is in the toolbar, then don't put 
                  it to Context menu (Jay) 
                + not that easy unfortunately - for some of the 
                  operations, the users should not move the mouse (Heiko) 
                + but toolbar should not contain all the functionality - 
                  only menu is for everything (Heiko) 
            + happy with the Jay's approach (Heiko) 
            + yes, would be a good thing to have guideline, agree with 
              Heiko (Jay) 
                + will start putting together points (Cor, Heiko, Jay) 
                + please do not do it heavy-weight (Kendy) 
                    + do not want to see it used as a weapon ;-) (Kendy) 
                    + create a guideline that always allows you to go 
                      ahead :D (Cor) 
                + Heiko did these for KDE: 
        + conclusion: Go ahead with the changes, but carefully 
            + check the stats from the 2009, consult the heavy Impress 
    + Moving 'Table Boundaries' to the View menu (Jay, Cor)
        + hard to measure this :-) (Kendy) 
        + the View menu contains other settings like these, looks 
          logical to move this one there too (Kendy) 
        + agree that it is similar as the View items (Cor) 
            + but we have a specific menu for Table (Cor) 
        + new users: when they see it in Table menu, they consider that 
          as a property of tables (Jay) 
            + when you click it, by default it looks like doing nothing 
              (because you have the borders for tables normally) (Jay) 
            + in View, it is clearer that it affects just the view, not 
              the table content (Jay) 
        + would the menu a bit more balanced (Kendy) 
        + let's do the change in master, and if we see complains, let's 
          revert (Kendy) 
            + I would not change unless there is a clear need, enough 
              changes and to document and explain..(Cor) 
            + concerned, but acceptable (Cor) 
* UX-advise fdo#80670, Left arrow moves to previous cell when trying to 
  edit (Stuart) 

    + think it should be closed as wontfix, as most apps do the same 
      thing (Jay) 
        + +1 (Cor) 
        + agreed (Kendy) 
        + function that we always had, not justified for change (Stuart) 
    + what is exactly the reason? (Heiko) 
        + people typing in lots and lots of data, power users (Kendy) 
AI  + conclusion: close as wontfix (Stuart) 

* Calc survey results published (Heiko, Jay) 
    + question in the comments: why the formula (tool)bar is not 
        + it was never converted from a hard-coded toolbar to a floating 
          one (Kendy) 
        + no real reason to change - it can be hidden and has different 
          functionality (Cor) 
        + but we won't block a code contribution to change it to a 
         'normal' toolbar (Kendy) 
        + reply on blog post written 
* Icon Updates / Issues 
    + Conflicts in master 
        + caused by running optipng on the icons (Kendy) 
        + just push your versions 
    + Sifr script to generate the icons automatically (Kendy) 
        + sent the info to Alex 
           + worked 
           + best to have it in the GitHub icon repo (Alex) 
               + done (Alex) 
    + Experiment: full SVG icon theme (Kendy) 
        + did not work that well 
        + converting through Inkscape is still the way to go (Kendy) 
    + Hi-contrast Sifr? (Jay) 
AI      + code for that is not done yet - do an Easy Hack (Kendy) 
    + New lc conditional formatting icons 
        + Need to choose the most fitting ones 
        + Should the future drop down use scor lc icons? 
            + probably sc -> no need for a .ui file 
    + Gnome 2.20 style 'a' icons & Gnome 3 style text line icons 
AI      + didn't get around to do it (Alex) 
        + strike-through still need an update (Jay) 
            + re-exporting with the shadow [half of what is in Gnome] (Jay) 
    + Breeze 
        + Wiki with list of icons to design (Riddell) 

        + Consider sidebar icons as well (prosmaninho) 
        + interesting bug - when the Breeze icon is disabled, it is 
          barely visible (Jay) 
    + Numix designed symbolic icons (Jay) 
        + spoke with the lead designer and he (and possibly his team) 
          would possibly be interested in do it 
    + Dark themes (Heiko) 
        + Several issues with dark themes 

        + providing a default theme with icon sets, primarily symbolic 
          ones (Jay) 
AI      + find where these icons are defined, and tell Jay (Kendy) 
* Single toolbar mode (Jay) 
    + Simple toolbar inspired by Google Docs
        + ah, the idea to provide simple sub-sets of features in toolbar 
          and menubar (Cor) 
        + +1 +1 +1 :)  PROVIDED there is a simple on/off for that 
          presentation, and not default (Cor) 
            + heard that idea before (Cor) 
    + a question of vision (Heiko) 
        + is LibreOffice more a tool for experts who want everything, or 
          new users with limited needs (Heiko) 
    + for lots of people, less is more (Jay) 
        + usecase: writer that wants just to type text (Jay) 
        + we have the standard design, but can provide the functionality 
          for others too (Jay) 
    + marketing point of view: possible to tweak your UI (Cor) 
        + to do a 'competition', and put that into one of more 
          extensions? (sort of easy) (Cor) 
    + don't really want to compete with Google's approach (Heiko) 
        + LibreOffice is a powerful package; we should define our 
          position (Heiko) 
    + not dumb down the LibreOffice overall, just possibility to have 
      that (Cor) 
        + would love to have a simplified tool for toolbar editing (Heiko) 
    + it is important how you present that (Cor, Heiko) 
    + overall an interesting idea, easy to implement from the technical 
      point of view (Kendy) 
        + let's think through that a bit until the next meeting 
* Global shortcuts not appearing in menus (Jay) 
    + no idea (Kendy) 
* Impress survey (Jay, Heiko) 
   + Proposal
   + issue with translation to Chinese :-) (Heiko) 
   + will start the survey on Friday (Heiko, Jay) 
       + please look & comment if you want to make changes 
* Underlined letters in drop downs not working (Jay) 
    + remove lines under letters (Kendy) 
* Praises coming in for the design team (Jay) 
    + "The design devs did the most work ever for the 4.4 release 
      because some blockades were finally broken down and they have 
      a new communication tool where to organize their work."
    + great work, guys, thank you! :-) (Kendy)