Design/Meetings/2012-09-01

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    Attendees

    Tasks

    • Ask Astron how the Gnome icons are credited
    • Ask about the possibility of creating an infobar UI element.
    • Ask whether people need "Size optimization for ODF format"
    • Ask whether it would be feasible to add a warning to the Save dialog
    • Add VBA and other missing options to the analysis page

    Topics

    Log

    [18:08] <@alexanderWilms> hi
[18:08] <mirek2> hello
[18:09] <mirek2> judging from your e-mail, you attended the last ESC call?
[18:09] <@alexanderWilms> I didn't
[18:09] <@alexanderWilms> Which email?
[18:09] <mirek2> the one on the design list
[18:09] <mirek2> where you asked for the number
[18:10] <mirek2> "ESC call details"
[18:10] <@alexanderWilms> That was the week before
[18:11] <@alexanderWilms> Did you have an IRC meeting last week?
[18:11] <@alexanderWilms> I couldn't find a log
[18:11] <mirek2> I was here, but nobody came
[18:11] <mirek2> so no
[18:11] <mirek2> did astron attend this week's ESC call?
[18:11] <mirek2> and could you provide a summary of last week's?
[18:12] <mirek2> I couldn't find the minutes...
[18:12] <@alexanderWilms> I'll try to remember
[18:12] <@alexanderWilms> I asked whether we could have a tango_testing icon theme
[18:12] <@alexanderWilms> Said that there was progress on the font list
[18:13] <@alexanderWilms> And that we continued to work on the options
[18:13] <mirek2> ok
[18:13] <@alexanderWilms> The "Tango Testing" theme is in master now, see
[18:13] <@alexanderWilms> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=4b27695fea841d54f7f6407b873bbd33709eeab5
[18:13] <@alexanderWilms> In the end, I pushed only the two icons that had the right size 16x16:
[18:13] <@alexanderWilms> tango_testing/cmd/sc_insertgraphic.png
[18:13] <@alexanderWilms> tango_testing/cmd/sc_insertsection.png
[18:13] <@alexanderWilms> The theme is enabled in the dev build by default. I did several testes
[18:13] <@alexanderWilms> and it worked fine here.
[18:13] <@alexanderWilms> Let me know if I missed something or if you need to somehow tweak it.
[18:13] <@alexanderWilms> I am sorry that it took so long. Some other tasks took longer than
[18:14] <@alexanderWilms> expected.
[18:14] <@alexanderWilms> Best Regards,
[18:14] <@alexanderWilms> Petr
[18:14] <@alexanderWilms> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/icon-themes/tango_testing/cmd
[18:14] <mirek2> is there a ppa for the dev build?
[18:14] <@alexanderWilms> NO
[18:14] <@alexanderWilms> No
[18:14] <mirek2> :/
[18:14] <@alexanderWilms> sry
[18:15] <mirek2> so that means that you have to build it with each update?
[18:15] <@alexanderWilms> Bjoern explained that it takes 3 hrs on some build machines so they can't build that often
[18:15] <mirek2> ok
[18:15] <mirek2> I probably won't be testing it, then
[18:15] <@alexanderWilms> Aren't there somewhere daily builds of master for Linux?
[18:15] <mirek2> I don't know
[18:15] <@alexanderWilms> couldn't find any, though
[18:15] <@alexanderWilms> hm
[18:16] <mirek2> contact ux-advise, maybe?
[18:16] <@alexanderWilms> I haven't build LibreOffice once
[18:16] <mirek2> or just ask on the libreoffice irc
[18:16] <@alexanderWilms> will do
[18:16] <mirek2> ok
[18:16] <mirek2> perhaps you could put the icons somewhere on the wiki as well?
[18:17] <mirek2> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Tango_Icons ?
[18:17] <@alexanderWilms> alright
[18:17] <mirek2> so that designers who don't want to build the latest dev build (like me) have somewher to see them :)
[18:17] <mirek2> great, thanks
[18:18] <@alexanderWilms> Do you have cloned the git repo?
[18:18] <@alexanderWilms> I assume that would be easier for everyone
[18:18] <mirek2> no, not that one
[18:19] <mirek2> the advantage of the wiki would be that the icons could evolve by iteration
[18:19] <mirek2> with several authors
[18:19] <@alexanderWilms> I'll upload them
[18:19] <mirek2> thanks
[18:20] <@alexanderWilms> svgs and pngs?
[18:20] <mirek2> preferably, yes
[18:21] <mirek2> SVGs only would work as well, though the previews in the wiki are a bit odd
[18:21] <mirek2> have you started working on your talk with Astron?
[18:22] <mirek2> for the Conference?
[18:24] <mirek2> alex?
[18:24] <@alexanderWilms> Not yet
[18:24] <@alexanderWilms> We wanted to talk via skype
[18:24] <mirek2> ok
[18:29] <@alexanderWilms> pngs are up: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Tango_Icons
[18:30] <mirek2> thanks :)
[18:31] <@alexanderWilms> Maybe I should link to the svgs in the repo
[18:32] <mirek2>   ok
[18:34] <@alexanderWilms> Apparently we didn't ask for permission for the text formatting icons
[18:35] <mirek2> we don't have to -- we're compatible with the CC license
[18:42] <@alexanderWilms> ping
[18:43] <mirek2> great
[18:43] <@alexanderWilms> ?
[18:45] <mirek2> what did you mean by "ping"?
[18:45] <mirek2> I assumed it was a sign that you were done with https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Tango_Icons, no?
[18:46] <@alexanderWilms> I wondered whether you read the question
[18:46] <@alexanderWilms> If I can upload the gnome icons for text alignment
[18:46] <@alexanderWilms> And yes, I'm done with uploading the icons to the wiki
[18:47] <mirek2> upload the gnome icons where? to the repo?
[18:47] <mirek2> or to the wiki?
[18:48] <@alexanderWilms> the repo
[18:48] <@alexanderWilms> and then the wiki
[18:48] <mirek2> I'm not sure
[18:48] <mirek2> the repo -- you would need to make sure the authors are mentioned somewhere
[18:48] <@alexanderWilms> A blanket statement for the whole icon set would be awesome
[18:49] <mirek2> we don't need a statement, we just need to abide by the CC license
[18:49] <@alexanderWilms> I assume we already have a THANKS file
[18:49] <@alexanderWilms> cool
[18:49] <mirek2> there's usually a CREDITS file
[18:49] <@alexanderWilms> yeah
[18:49] <@alexanderWilms> Maybe something to discuss on the mailing list
[18:50] <mirek2> on the wiki, you would need to link to the credits
[18:50] <@alexanderWilms> yes
[18:50] <mirek2> something to ask astron, I guess
[18:50] <@alexanderWilms> agree
[18:50] <mirek2> how the current Gnome icons we bundle are credited
[18:51] <@alexanderWilms> Maybe you could ask michael for commit rights
[18:52] <@alexanderWilms> that would make collaboration esier
[18:52] <@alexanderWilms> *easier
[18:52] <mirek2> honestly, I would prefer to design and collaborate in the open
[18:52] <mirek2> so that anyone can easily join in
[18:52] == Manas [75f2bc10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.242.188.16] has joined #libreoffice-design
[18:52] <@alexanderWilms> Hi
[18:52] <mirek2> so I think the ideal place is the wiki for now
[18:52] <Manas> hi
[18:52] <mirek2> hello
[18:53] <@alexanderWilms> I did some doodling wrt our rebranding
[18:54] <mirek2> I know
[18:54] <mirek2> to be honest, I would like to keep the branding the way it is
[18:54] <mirek2> except I would change the brand colors to be more Tango-like
[18:55] <mirek2> I was always satisfied with the branding we had, though
[18:55] <@alexanderWilms> I think the current logo looks pretty good
[18:55] <mirek2> yes
[18:55] <@alexanderWilms> I don't know what we will do because of the use of Vegur
[18:56] <mirek2> I've never really had anything against Vegur, but I suppose we could find a better font
[18:56] <@alexanderWilms> What about having Bold/regular within our logo?
[18:57] <mirek2> I've never seen it as a problem
[18:58] <mirek2> I believe I've seen other logos that are half-bold, half-regular
[18:58] <mirek2> the conference logos work fine with it
[18:58] <mirek2> I don't think it's a problem
[18:59] <mirek2> but I'm not against new designs
[18:59] <mirek2> the only part of the branding that has really bothered me is the name
[19:00] <@alexanderWilms> oh
[19:00] <mirek2> since it's hard to pronounce and feels like it's saying that it's a cheap copy of Office
[19:01] <@alexanderWilms> I've seen it being misspelt from time to time.
[19:01] <mirek2> I've heard it pronounced in a lot of different ways
[19:01] <@alexanderWilms> LibriOffice
[19:01] <mirek2> and not one feels natural
[19:01] <@alexanderWilms> LibreOffice
[19:01] <@alexanderWilms> Libre
[19:01] <mirek2> yes
[19:01] <@alexanderWilms> Libra Office
[19:02] <mirek2> I love Calligra's name, on the other hand
[19:02] <@alexanderWilms> I assume it's more of a problem if one's mother tonge's word for 'free' is similar to libre
[19:02] <mirek2> I think it's less of a problem
[19:03] <@alexanderWilms> hm
[19:03] <@alexanderWilms> But frankly, I think a renaming is out of scope
[19:03] <mirek2> yes, it is
[19:03] <mirek2> too bad :)
[19:04] <@alexanderWilms> Personally, I like the current name. It conveys what it's about and it's not completely generic
[19:04] <mirek2> it feels very generic to me
[19:05] <@alexanderWilms> Well, most Windows users probably only know 'Office'
[19:05] <@alexanderWilms> The most generic name possible
[19:05] <mirek2> "open" and "libre" have been historically used to prefix the names of proprietary software to get the name for the free alternative
[19:07] <mirek2> it just makes it sound like a cheap knock-off, imho
[19:08] <mirek2> anyway, should we go through options again?
[19:08] <@alexanderWilms> Reminds me of 'being open-source isn't a feature'
[19:08] <Manas> i think the perception will change with time
[19:08] <@alexanderWilms> in which direcztion?
[19:08] <Manas> I like the current logo, but I think a new logo with a major version (v5would create more talk
[19:08] <Manas> I like the current logo, but I think a new logo with a major version (v5?) would create more talk
[19:09] <@alexanderWilms> That it's a feature. Maybe, considering Win 8 + UEFI and the closed MAS
[19:10] <mirek2> I don't think we need a new logo -- the current logo is quality, it's recognizable, and I don't think we could come up with anything better, really
[19:10] <mirek2> we could update the icons a bit, though
[19:10] <mirek2> if anybody's up for that task
[19:10] <mirek2> but I don't think it's a priority
[19:11] <mirek2> in any case, I think Astron was more interested in changing the branding, so I would leave that discussion for next week
[19:12] <mirek2> I would like to talk about the impress remote now, if that's ok?
[19:12] <@alexanderWilms> Yes
[19:12] <mirek2> you've marked it as "implemented"
[19:13] <mirek2> is it, though?
[19:13] <@alexanderWilms> Yes...
[19:13] <mirek2> I mean, is the whole proposal implemented
[19:13] <@alexanderWilms> Well, There was a final report and an apk for testing was uploaded
[19:13] <mirek2> including the desktop parts
[19:13] <mirek2> have you tested it?
[19:14] <@alexanderWilms> The small window is implemented
[19:14] <mirek2> I have no way to test it myself
[19:14] <@alexanderWilms> no
[19:14] <mirek2> ok
[19:14] <mirek2> are we letting go of the infobar, then?
[19:15] <@alexanderWilms> I don't know how much work a whole new UI element would be
[19:15] <@alexanderWilms> We could ask the student
[19:15] <mirek2> we should probably make a design first
[19:16] <mirek2> we just described it in very generic terms
[19:16] <mirek2> and didn't really design for it at all
[19:17] <@alexanderWilms> indeed
[19:18] <mirek2> what should we do in the interim?
[19:18] <mirek2> have a simple modal dialog?
[19:18] <@alexanderWilms> I assume it currently works without a modal dialog
[19:19] <@alexanderWilms> IMHO it would be wasted effort if the modal dialog would be replaced anyway
[19:19] <mirek2> ok
[19:19] <mirek2> then leave it connected by default for now, I suppose
[19:20] == Manas [75f2bc10@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.242.188.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[19:20] <@alexanderWilms> yeah
[19:20] <mirek2> ok
[19:20] <mirek2> should we talk about options now?
[19:20] <mirek2> or is there another topic we should discuss first?
[19:20] <@alexanderWilms> I guess
[19:21] <mirek2> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Analyses/Global_Options
[19:22] <mirek2> When saving or sending
[19:23] <@alexanderWilms> I need the context
[19:23] <@alexanderWilms> one sec
[19:23] <mirek2> Select to see a warning dialog when you try to print a document that contains recorded changes or comments.
[19:24] <mirek2> "save or send" instead of "print"
[19:25] <@alexanderWilms> ?
[19:25] <mirek2> Select to see a warning dialog when you try to save or send a document that contains recorded changes or comments.
[19:26] <@alexanderWilms> hm
[19:26] <mirek2> I suppose Generic, since it's a matter of security, and there the user should be in control.
[19:26] <@alexanderWilms> business-relevant I guess
[19:27] <@alexanderWilms> yes
[19:27] <mirek2> Astron wrote "Nothing to remove. I like this page—it shows a lot of good design sense and is easy enough to understand." on https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Whiteboards/KillOptions#Security
[19:27] <@alexanderWilms> so generic for everything?
[19:27] <mirek2> I suppose, though I don't really understand the use-cases here
[19:28] <@alexanderWilms> If you're working on something for a client and curse him in some commentsfor example
[19:28] <@alexanderWilms> :)
[19:29] <mirek2> :) I doubt you would suddenly remember that if a warning dialog told you that you were saving the document
[19:29] <mirek2> I mean, you're already saving it, it seems like you just intend to push changes
[19:30] <@alexanderWilms> If it's a huge document
[19:30] <@alexanderWilms> and you work in many sesions
[19:30] <@alexanderWilms> Could you mark them as generic then?
[19:30] <mirek2> yes, I will
[19:31] <@alexanderWilms> thx
[19:31] <mirek2> though it's probably something to return to with Astron
[19:31] <mirek2> Persistently save passwords protected by a master password
[19:32] <mirek2> If enabled, LibreOffice will securely store all passwords that you use to access files from web servers. You can retrieve the passwords from the list after you enter the master password.
[19:32] <@alexanderWilms> I thought the whole page was well-designed
[19:32] <mirek2> ok, so Passwords for web connections generic as well
[19:32] <mirek2> I concur
[19:33] <@alexanderWilms> Same for macros?
[19:33] <mirek2> I think so, though I don't use macros
[19:33] <@alexanderWilms> Maybe move the certificate path to the pathes pane?
[19:34] <@alexanderWilms> Nor do I
[19:35] <mirek2> hold on, I need to open Options, since it's not on the wiki
[19:37] <mirek2> ok, I see it now
[19:37] == Manas [75f2bc56@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.242.188.86] has joined #libreoffice-design
[19:38] <Manas> sorry, got dropped off
[19:38] <mirek2> generic, I guess
[19:38] <mirek2> that's ok :)
[19:39] <mirek2> whether or not it's in Paths depends on the designer
[19:39] <mirek2> I would leave it under Security, though
[19:41] <mirek2> "Use text selection cursor in read-only text document"
[19:42] <mirek2> could we make that the default and make it an advanced option?
[19:43] <mirek2> alex?
[19:52] <mirek2> sorry, I think the error was on my side
[19:52] <mirek2> alexanderWilms: are you there?
[19:53] <@alexanderWilms> yes
[19:53] <mirek2> ok, good
[19:53] <mirek2> what do you think about "Use text selection cursor in read-only text document"
[19:54] <@alexanderWilms> why wouldn't one want that
[19:54] <mirek2> I'm not sure
[19:55] <Manas> ssomebody may try to select and copy text
[19:55] <mirek2> a cleaner viewing experience, I guess
[19:55] <mirek2> Manas: they're free to -- it's just read only
[19:55] <mirek2> you can copy text from read-only documents
[19:56] <Manas> yes, but if we do not show the text-selection cursor, the user will be confused
[19:56] <mirek2> yes, that's why we're saying that we should show the cursor at all times
[19:56] <Manas> ok, my bad
[19:56] <@alexanderWilms> advanced?
[19:56] <mirek2> yes, I think so
[19:57] <mirek2> "Allow animated graphics"
[19:57] <mirek2> generic?
[19:58] <@alexanderWilms> yeah
[19:59] <mirek2> ok, we're back to where two weeks ago
[19:59] <mirek2> let's skip to "Load/Save"
[20:00] <mirek2> "Load user-specific settings with the document"
[20:00] <@alexanderWilms> yes
[20:00] <@alexanderWilms> If you need a short recreational pause: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by8Ei2UaZ-w&feature=player_embedded
[20:01] <@alexanderWilms> It's awesome
[20:01] <mirek2> astron writes "The Help file doesn't give me a hint what those user-specific settings might be. I reckon they relate to toolbar positions and zoom factors. As such, this option should probably always be turned on. I'll wait for feedback here."
[20:02] <@alexanderWilms> wait where is that?
[20:02] <mirek2> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Whiteboards/KillOptions
[20:02] <@alexanderWilms> I meant within the options dialog
[20:03] <@alexanderWilms> ah
[20:03] <@alexanderWilms> I read 'let's skip load/save'
[20:04] <@alexanderWilms> hm, make it default and advanced?
[20:05] <mirek2> I, like Astron, don't really know what it's talking about
[20:05] <mirek2> maybe we should skip it for now
[20:05] <mirek2> and ask on the mailing list what it does
[20:06] <@alexanderWilms> alright
[20:06] <mirek2> "Load printer settings with the document"
[20:07] <@alexanderWilms> disable by deafult?
[20:07] <@alexanderWilms> and advanced?
[20:07] <mirek2> yes, I think so
[20:07] <mirek2> Edit document properties before saving
[20:08] <@alexanderWilms> no idea what that means
[20:08] <@alexanderWilms> does the properties window pop up?
[20:08] <mirek2> btw, for "Load printer settings with the document", Astron wrote "According to the help file, one of the reasons this option exists is because if it is enabled, the current default printer might not be used. If this is the solitary reason for this option, this cries for intelligent behavior—e. g. load options but always enable the current default printer instead of the last used one. Option should be removed."
[20:09] <@alexanderWilms> okay then
[20:09] <mirek2> better to read the whole discussion at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Whiteboards/KillOptions#Accessibility
[20:10] <@alexanderWilms> accessibility?
[20:11] <mirek2> sorry, that's just what I had in my URL bar, since I clicked on "Accessibility" in the TOC
[20:13] <mirek2> in any case, I would leave this for further discussion
[20:13] <mirek2> with Astron
[20:14] <@alexanderWilms> okay with me
[20:14] <mirek2> I myself would make it Advanced, since it seems to be a feature valuable to enterprises...
[20:14] <mirek2> "Edit document properties before saving"
[20:14] <mirek2> of note: it only applies to "Save as"
[20:15] <@alexanderWilms> if it opens the prop window, then advanced
[20:15] <mirek2> yes, I think so as well
[20:15] <mirek2> Always create backup copy
[20:16] <mirek2> I suppose the default behavior is having it enabled?
[20:16] <mirek2> if so, then this option should be Advanced
[20:16] <@alexanderWilms> yes
[20:17] <@alexanderWilms>  I think that's the document.odt~
[20:17] <@alexanderWilms> or not?
[20:17] <mirek2> no, it's a separate .bak file
[20:18] <mirek2> it's saved in a special backup folder
[20:18] <mirek2> "Save AutoRecovery info every ... minutes"?
[20:19] <mirek2> Astron writes "This is another option that cries for an intelligent replacement. As long as the user edits her file it should be saved every ~30 seconds (like for instance Google Mail does). I hope this wouldn't kill battery life—modern OS's should have the possibility to collect "disk writes" in RAM and write those changes to disk later."
[20:19] <@alexanderWilms> disable and advanced?
[20:20] <mirek2> I agree with him; however, the current AutoRecovery saving takes far too long that saving every 30 seconds would make LibO unusable on most setups
[20:20] <mirek2> so I would make it Advanced for now
[20:20] <@alexanderWilms> yes, we should keep the current time interval
[20:21] <mirek2> ok
[20:21] <mirek2> "Save URLs relative to file system"
[20:22] <mirek2> Astron wrote: "In some cases, relative links might be unwanted. This is almost universally true if a link leads to another drive – in this case, use an absolute link by default. In many other cases, we will have a hard time to detect where a link is meant to be absolute or relative, respectively. This will be different from link to link, so it might make sense to instead of a global option to have per-link options (e. g. in the Picture dialog/the file chooser)."
[20:22] <@alexanderWilms> advanced?
[20:22] <mirek2> actually, he wrote "Should both always be on. Remove these options."
[20:22] <mirek2> the above is what was under "problems with solution"
[20:23] <mirek2> "Contextual", maybe?
[20:23] <mirek2> since it really is best to have a per-link option
[20:23] <mirek2> I suppose
[20:23] <@alexanderWilms> would be quite some work
[20:24] <@alexanderWilms> adding that to every single dialgo
[20:24] <@alexanderWilms> *dialog
[20:24] <mirek2> ok, Advanced for now, then?
[20:25] <@alexanderWilms> yes
[20:25] <@alexanderWilms> Default file formats... > ODF format version
[20:25] <@alexanderWilms> advanced I guess
[20:26] <mirek2> yes, I think so
[20:26] <mirek2> "Size optimization for ODF format"
[20:27] <mirek2> astron writes "As far as I can tell from the help, this option is mostly for ODF debugging and people eager to tinker with their ODF files from a text editor. It is a good fit for an advanced options panel. This option should be removed and be turned on."
[20:27] <mirek2> and I agree with him -- let's make it Unnecessary
[20:28] <@alexanderWilms> completely remove it?
[20:28] <mirek2> I would say so, but I see that I misread Astron's words
[20:28] <mirek2> he asks for it to be "Advanced"
[20:29] <mirek2> what do you think?
[20:29] <@alexanderWilms> ask whether devs actually need it+
[20:31] <mirek2> ok
[20:31] <mirek2> Warn when not saving in ODF or default format
[20:31] <@alexanderWilms> Default file formats... > Document type.../Always save as...
[20:32] <@alexanderWilms> generic and enabled?
[20:32] <@alexanderWilms> they can get quite annoying
[20:32] <mirek2> yes, Generic
[20:33] <mirek2> astron asks to get rid of some things
[20:33] <mirek2> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Whiteboards/KillOptions#General_2
[20:34] <mirek2> I agree with him
[20:35] <mirek2> what do you think?
[20:36] <@alexanderWilms> where?
[20:37] <@alexanderWilms> ah#
[20:38] <mirek2> ok :)
[20:38] <@alexanderWilms> yeah, I agree
[20:39] <mirek2> ok
[20:39] <mirek2> "Warn when not saving in ODF or default format"
[20:40] <@alexanderWilms> enabled
[20:40] <@alexanderWilms> and generic?
[20:42] <mirek2> I would like to have it "Contextual" -- display a warning in red in the Save dialog, but I'm not sure how feasible that would be, seeing as LibO uses the system dialogs
[20:42] <mirek2> what do you think?
[20:42] <mirek2> should I ask on the ux-advise list?
[20:43] <@alexanderWilms> I think the small window is enough. Integration would be a nice-to have
[20:43] <Manas> should we follow the GIMP approach...
[20:43] <Manas> a copy is saved if other formats are chosen
[20:44] <@alexanderWilms> Save vs. Exoprt?
[20:44] <mirek2> in GIMP, it's a bit different, since only the default file format holds all the features
[20:45] <@alexanderWilms> I know
[20:45] <mirek2> my take on the issue is this: if one simply saves, then he wants to simply update the file he's been using, no matter what file format it is
[20:45] <@alexanderWilms> I think one can't 'save' as jpeg
[20:46] <mirek2> what are the "Save as" options in GIMP?
[20:46] <Manas> yes, save should not trigger any warning
[20:47] <mirek2> I'm under the impression that the other options don't preserve all aspects of the image
[20:47] <@alexanderWilms> I dont have version 2.8
[20:47] <mirek2> me neither
[20:48] <mirek2> Manas, could you help us out there?
[20:48] <Manas> in the context of GIMP, the layers are flattened for other file formats
[20:48] <mirek2> ok, thanks
[20:49] <mirek2> alex, what did you mean by "Integration would be a nice-to have"?
[20:49] <@alexanderWilms> integration of a warning into the native file dialog
[20:50] <mirek2> ok
[20:50] <mirek2> so should I mark the option as "Contextual" or "Generic"?
[20:50] <mirek2> or ask on the mailing list if it would be possible to have this warning first?
[20:51] <Manas> should be contextual... if the user is saving to a .txt file and the formatting info will be lost
[20:52] <mirek2> that's another interesting usecase
[20:54] <mirek2> ok, there's a different dialog for that
[20:54] <mirek2> nevermind -- no there's not
[20:55] <mirek2> so, Generic for now, I guess
[20:55] <mirek2> and, if we find the need to, we could figure out how to make it contextual later...
[20:55] <mirek2> ok?
[20:56] <Manas> ok
[20:56] <mirek2> although, perhaps it should be Advanced, given that if it's disabled, it could lead to the user accidentally losing formatting?
[20:58] <mirek2> ideally, we should have a modal dialog for formats that lead to a loss in formatting and a simple warning in the Save as dialog for formats that don't
[20:58] <mirek2> and the former should apply to both Save and Save as
[20:59] <mirek2> alex, your thoughts on this?
[21:00] <@alexanderWilms> would be nuice if that was possible
[21:00] <mirek2> ok
[21:01] <mirek2> Generic or Advanced for now?
[21:01] <@alexanderWilms> advanced
[21:02] <mirek2> ok
[21:02] <Manas> guys, its quite late for me (12:30 am here in India), I am signing off...
[21:02] <mirek2> ok, good night
[21:02] <Manas> have a good weekend
[21:02] <Manas> bye
[21:02] == Manas [75f2bc56@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.242.188.86] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[21:04] <mirek2> Proxy
[21:04] <@alexanderWilms> VBA?
[21:04] <@alexanderWilms> proxy is one of the last options
[21:05] <mirek2> ok, I see that the Analysis page doesn't have VBA yet
[21:05] <mirek2> can we skip to Proxy for now?
[21:06] <@alexanderWilms> yes
[21:07] <mirek2> ok
[21:08] <mirek2> astron wrote "Nothing to remove, but needs a reorganization. I believe it makes sense, although firstly, we should naturally import any proxy settings from the OS and secondly, this should be in a new dialog (even Mozilla have done that and their product is a browser)."
[21:08] <mirek2> so I suppose he would opt for "Contextual"
[21:08] <@alexanderWilms> but why keep it?
[21:09] <mirek2> it's bound to have some users, otherwise it wouldn't be there in the first place
[21:09] <mirek2> I would make it Advanced, since it seems like an option that applies to the whole suite
[21:10] <mirek2> and therefore should stay under Options, I would say
[21:10] <@alexanderWilms> okay
[21:10] <mirek2> so Advanced, then?
[21:11] <@alexanderWilms> yes
[21:12] <mirek2> ok
[21:13] <mirek2> "Browser plug-in"
[21:13] <mirek2> Specifies to use the Mozilla plug-in to show LibreOffice documents.
[21:13] <@alexanderWilms> unneccessary?
[21:14] <mirek2> I'm not sure what it does, to be honest
[21:14] <mirek2> do you know?
[21:15] <@alexanderWilms> one can view an impress slideshow in a browser
[21:15] <@alexanderWilms> dunno it it'S that
[21:15] <mirek2> what does it change in LibreOffice, though?
[21:16] <mirek2> shouldn't Firefox be used to handle its plug-ins?
[21:17] <@alexanderWilms> maybe ask what exactly it does
[21:17] <mirek2> http://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Browser_Plug-in
[21:19] <mirek2> so, if I understand it correctly, installing LibreOffice automatically installs a Firefox plug-in
[21:20] <@alexanderWilms> advanced?
[21:20] <mirek2> the odd thing is, Firefox doesn't show it under "Add-ons"
[21:20] <mirek2> I mean, "Plug-ins"
[21:21] <mirek2> if it was a Firefox plug-in, then I would say this optiond should be moved into the Firefox plug-in manager
[21:22] <mirek2> especially since it's Firefox-based, not related to LibreOffice, and not relevant to users of other browsers
[21:23] <@alexanderWilms> it's being installed in any case
[21:24] <mirek2> nevermind, it shows up in Firefox if the option is enabled
[21:24] <mirek2> and there's a "Deactivate" button next to the plug-in in Firefox
[21:24] <mirek2> so I think the option in LibreOffice is unnecessary
[21:25] <mirek2> given that you can simply use the Disable button in Firefox
[21:25] <@alexanderWilms> yes
[21:26] <mirek2> E-mail client
[21:27] <@alexanderWilms> is it possible to get the default on win and macOS?
[21:28] <@alexanderWilms> automatically?
[21:28] <mirek2> IDK
[21:28] <mirek2> if so, then it should be Unnecessary
[21:28] <mirek2> right?
[21:28] <mirek2> anyway, I'll ask on ux-advise
[21:29] <mirek2> chatrs: default colors
[21:30] <mirek2> charts, it should say
[21:30] <mirek2> Advanced?
[21:30] <@alexanderWilms> hm
[21:31] <@alexanderWilms> we should then improve the default colors
[21:31] <mirek2> I don't think they're that bad, but yes, I agree
[21:31] <mirek2> advanced, then?
[21:33] <mirek2> given that LibreOffice will be perfectly usable without this option
[21:34] <@alexanderWilms> yes
[21:35] <mirek2> ok
[21:35] <mirek2> database: Connections
[21:35] <mirek2> given that I know nothing about databases, I would skip this
[21:36] <@alexanderWilms> agree
[21:36] <@alexanderWilms> are we done?
[21:37] <mirek2> not with the page
[21:37] <mirek2> do you want to be done for today?
[21:37] <mirek2> there's a whole Language section to take care of
[21:37] <@alexanderWilms> I do :)
[21:38] <mirek2> ok
[21:38] <mirek2> I'll put up the log
[21:38] <@alexanderWilms> Thanks
[21:39] <@alexanderWilms> Have a nice weekend
[21:39] <mirek2> you too
[21:39] <@alexanderWilms> Bye
[21:39] <mirek2> bye
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