Design/Meetings/2013-03-02

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Attendees

issa
mirek2
sknorr
Topics

Template manager
Impress remote
Icons
Log

[19:00] == issa [256b1ddd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.37.107.29.221] has joined #libreoffice-design
[19:00] == mode/#libreoffice-design [+ns] by rowling.freenode.net
[19:03] == mirek2 [4e66c274@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.102.194.116] has joined #libreoffice-design
[19:03] <mirek2> hi issa
[19:04] == sknorr [~work@dslb-188-103-083-019.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #libreoffice-design
[19:04] <mirek2> I may not be staying long
[19:04] <mirek2> hi astron
[19:04] <sknorr> hi
[19:04] <@issa> hello mirek
[19:05] <sknorr> i might log in as astron again in a few minutes – just wanted to see if anyones there yet
[19:05] <mirek2> alright
[19:05] <mirek2> any topics this week?
[19:05] <mirek2> astron, perhaps you could summarize the ESC call?
[19:07] <sknorr> i could...
[19:07] <sknorr> * we quickly spoke about the icons, easy hacks, and no real progress in both areas (i didnt mention the github repo just yet though)
[19:07] <sknorr> *
[19:07] <@issa> what's ESC?
[19:07] <sknorr> * i mentioned the symphony gradients to mmeeks in private again – checking whether we can use their gradients is still on his list
[19:08] <sknorr> esc = engineering steering committee
[19:08] <@issa> I see
[19:08] <sknorr> theres a teleconference every week
[19:08] <sknorr>                ^ right word?
[19:08] <@issa> oh ok
[19:09] <@issa> probably, I don't think any of us is a native speaker though :P
[19:09] <mirek2> i think it is
[19:10] <sknorr> anyhow... joel from qa didnt like the fact that some new features (template manager and impress remote) attracted lots of new bugs and seemed half-baked
[19:10] <mirek2> I completely agree with him
[19:11] <mirek2> what was the response?
[19:11] <sknorr> right, i feel partly responsible for the template manager, though
[19:11] <sknorr> response was, that we didnt have better features to ship, but we needed good ones to "justify" 4.0
[19:12] <sknorr> (the former line of thinking used to be just: were breaking extension compatibility and we did a great job so far = 4.0)
[19:13] <mirek2> right -- adding half-baked features isn't something you have to do with a .0 release
[19:13] <@issa> true
[19:13] <mirek2> it's something you shouldn't do ever, imho
[19:13] <mirek2> unless you don't care about users
[19:14] <mirek2> my perspective on this is that it seems like we care more about marketing than the actual software
[19:14] <sknorr> right. but marketing is part of the first impression people get from a software, so ...
[19:15] <sknorr> btw, did you attend the call with the website/marketing people?
[19:15] <mirek2> nope, missed it
[19:15] <sknorr> crud!
[19:15] <mirek2> I checked the thread a few minutes after 5, thought it was cancelled
[19:16] <mirek2> the first impression might not always come from the marketing guys, though
[19:16] <sknorr> ok. see what charles writes back (i apologised for missing)
[19:16] <mirek2> I think it's now more usual to hear about software from social networks
[19:16] <mirek2> and if people post negative things about LibreOffice, then that's not good
[19:17] <sknorr> right
[19:17] <mirek2> anyway, what can we do?
[19:18] <mirek2> there are quite a lot of design bugs in the final implementation of the template manager
[19:18] <mirek2> the toolbar appearance gets me the most, to be honest
[19:18] <mirek2> and also the navigation bar
[19:18] <sknorr> hum, yes.
[19:19] <sknorr> but one of the problems is that you designed with too fancy controls (like the split buttons at the top)
[19:19] <@issa> where is that template manager?
[19:20] <mirek2> sknorr: sure, but I had no clue we couldn't implement those (I still think it could be possible, just basing it on the normal button look, stretching it out, and adding separators)
[19:20] <mirek2> I was hoping a developer would tell me "this can't be implemented"
[19:20] <sknorr> issa: file > new > templates
[19:21] <mirek2> (either Cedric or his student)
[19:21] <mirek2> and I was hoping that would be done right after looking at the proposed design
[19:22] <sknorr> right. that would have been good. but i guess we can attribute part of that to shyness of the student?
[19:22] <@issa> oh that's bad
[19:22] <mirek2> :) maybe
[19:23] <mirek2> it really doesn't matter who we blame, though
[19:23] <mirek2> I'd still like to look into possible ways to implement split buttons
[19:24] <mirek2> I mean, I suppose GTK+ does it and they also have to maintain theme compatibility
[19:24] <@issa> split buttons as in Mac like tabs?
[19:24] <sknorr> yes
[19:24] <sknorr> (on the mac its probably correct
[19:24] <sknorr> )
[19:25] <sknorr> mirek: do you have the mockup handy?
[19:25] <@issa> I assume so since all tabs look like that
[19:25] <sknorr> issa: are you on a mac?
[19:25] <@issa> no but I have access to one
[19:25] <mirek2> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Templates_and_documents_rework#Tentative_Design
[19:26] <mirek2> I'm on a borrowed mac right now
[19:26] <@issa> (not now)
[19:27] <sknorr> ok
[19:28] <mirek2> I guess we should submit a lot of bug reports, then, and post about them on ux-advise?
[19:29] <mirek2> from the screenshots I've seen, the Android remote has some slight design bugs as well
[19:29] <sknorr> hm right.
[19:30] <sknorr> one of the things thats different from the design is that the clock has far too much clickable area
[19:31] <mirek2> ok
[19:31] <sknorr> and is hard to manipulate too, also clock manipulation has some more bugs.
[19:31] <sknorr> i meant to write some sort of assessment about the remote app ... but due to laziness ... hasnt happened yet
[19:31] <mirek2> how is it hard to manipulate?
[19:32] <mirek2> that's all right, we all have limited time
[19:33] <sknorr> well, i think what irked me most (retrospectively) was that there are so many icons (icons are occasionally hard to read, especially if they are supposed to illustrate the difference between stop watch and countdown etc.)
[19:33] <sknorr> anyway, might make sense to write it until the impress sprint next month
[19:34] <mirek2> right
[19:34] <sknorr> maybe you can come too?
[19:34] <mirek2> where is it?
[19:34] <sknorr> dresden
[19:35] <sknorr> i.e. not extremely far from you. and i get there by train for free :)
[19:35] <mirek2> and when?
[19:35] <sknorr> april 22 or so
[19:36] <mirek2> I'll consider it
[19:36] <mirek2> btw, I asked alex if we could move Tango testing development to github
[19:36] <mirek2> and he agreed
[19:37] <mirek2> so... I'd like to start an effort to just finish the shape icon set
[19:37] <sknorr> good.
[19:37] <mirek2> that's an easy-to-do set, it's relatively non-controversial, and the current icons are awful
[19:37] <@issa> what's that?
[19:37] <mirek2> Tango testing is the next planned version of the current default set
[19:37] <sknorr> mirek means the icons in the drawing toolbar
[19:38] <mirek2> yes
[19:38] <@issa> oh ok
[19:38] <sknorr> (rectangle, circle, stars ... what-have-you)
[19:38] <@issa> got it
[19:40] <sknorr> sorry, that wasnt meant to be condescending.
[19:40] <@issa> I know, don't worry about it
[19:41] <mirek2> any other topics?
[19:41] <@issa> yes, SparkleShare
[19:41] <mirek2> (as I said on the ml, I really didn't have time this week)
[19:41] <mirek2> issa: yes?
[19:41] <@issa> I'm kinda clueless as to how to implement it
[19:42] <mirek2> given that I'm on a borrowed Mac with OS 10.5, which SparkleShare doesn't support, I can't help there
[19:42] <mirek2> Astron, perhaps you could help?
[19:42] <sknorr> havent installed it yet.
[19:42] <sknorr> issa, what system are you on?
[19:42] <@issa> currently Windows, but normally Linux/Ubuntu
[19:43] <@issa> (I meant setting it up on github)
[19:43] <sknorr> do you already have it installed?
[19:43] <@issa> no
[19:43] <sknorr> oh ... i havent done that before ...
[19:44] <@issa> I thought I have to set it up server side first
[19:44] <@issa> I'll tinker with it this week
[19:44] <@issa> btw do I have commit access?
[19:44] <sknorr> you should have
[19:44] <@issa> cool
[19:45] <sknorr> but i guess we need ssh keys from you, now that i read ...
[19:45] <sknorr> http://www.webupd8.org/2012/12/install-sparkleshare-10-in-ubuntu.html
[19:46] <sknorr> so that might be the problem.
[19:46] <@issa> I haven't attempted yet, I had no idea where to start
[19:46] <sknorr> no, you just have to add a key to your github account
[19:47] <@issa> will do it tomorrow
[19:48] <sknorr> good
[19:49] <sknorr> do you have an idea how we should start? should we just clone gnome's repo first?
[19:49] <sknorr> (into our own)
[19:49] <mirek2> gnome's symbolic repo?
[19:49] <mirek2> sure
[19:49] <@issa> why would we need that on the repo?
[19:50] <mirek2> we're using the symbolic icons as a starting point
[19:50] <@issa> ok I guess we can copy their svg icon sheets
[19:50] <@issa> not the split icons
[19:50] <sknorr> split icons?
[19:51] <@issa> I mean the actual icon files (a file for each icon)
[19:51] <sknorr> oh, right. that wouldnt make much sense
[19:51] <@issa> we only need svg version of sheets like this http://www.mediafire.com/conv/982d6e53497628fe8627053977ecfbb159954e6a6610b12da800e00e17b753006g.jpg
[19:52] <@issa> as for the icons themselves the new tango icons could be helpful to quickly see what has been done and what hasn't
[19:52] <mirek2> they'll be in a separate repo
[19:53] <sknorr> but we cant combine them with tango icons.
[19:53] <@issa> that would work too
[19:53] <@issa> I just meant providing an easy way to see the tango version
[19:54] <mirek2> well, since it's in another repo, it should show up in SparkleShare as well, only in a different folder
[19:54] <sknorr> oh right
[19:55] <@issa> yes
[19:55] <sknorr> issa, have you already checked out the core repo of libreoffce?
[19:55] <@issa> yes I have it built
[19:57] <sknorr> well, then you already have the new tango icon in icon-themes/tango-testing
[19:57] <@issa> yes
[20:00] <sknorr> ^icon^icons
[20:00] <mirek2> any other topics?
[20:01] <@issa> not here
[20:02] <sknorr> hm... then thats it?
[20:04] <mirek2> yeah, I guess
[20:04] <mirek2> does anyone want to upload the log?
[20:04] == colonelqubit [~qubit@129.170.131.208] has joined #libreoffice-design
[20:04] <@issa> upload as in just copy and paste? sure
[20:04] <mirek2> hi colonelqubit
[20:05] <mirek2> it seems like we're just ending, unless you have a topic you'd like to discuss
[20:09] <mirek2> colonelqubit: based on your silence, I assume you don't have any topic in mind
[20:09] <mirek2> in which case, we're done for today
[20:10] <mirek2> see you all next week
[20:10] <@issa> see you
[20:10] <sknorr> bye