Design/Meetings/2013-03-23

From The Document Foundation Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Attendees

  • astron
  • colonelqubit
  • hiok
  • K_Peignot
  • mirek2


Topics

  • Color picker/handling
  • Flat icons

Log

16:07:27 mirek2: hi astron
16:09:55 k_peignot: Ok ! For me I’m on my phone, trying the tablet but will be more difficult to navigate  
16:10:12 mirek2: do you think you could update us on the ESC call, though?
16:10:55 mirek2: I’m on a (borrowed) tablet
16:11:37 k_peignot: Okay (me not yet it’s a difficult one)
16:12:32 astron: so, ...
16:12:48 astron: (ill be here for 10 mins, then gone for a while)
16:12:59 mirek2: okay
16:14:06 astron: hm, where to start ... as i opened my mail, i see that florian wants feedback on what the teams have done... do we care? have we done anything?
16:15:00 astron: oh ... esc update...
16:15:04 astron: (hi)
16:15:09 issa: hi all
16:15:21 mirek2: hi issa
16:16:46 astron: the call was less busy than usual... michael was away, and no one was not prepared to lead the call, so kendy ultimately did...
16:16:53 issa: can someone upload the log so far?
16:17:51 astron: also, many people seem to have been discouraged by the fact that the call thus started at ~10 past
16:19:34 astron: hm, i mentioned a few things about what happened on the list, (persona page moving, etc.), and talked to kendy about the possibility of ui/design gsoc’s – we now have ~three more of those, thanks to kendy
16:20:04 astron: additionally, we still have those that no one did in the last year (among them the colour picker)
16:20:05 mirek2: great
16:21:02 astron: cedric reminded me of a broken promise (i promised to put the template icons to be used as make-shift thumbnails into git)
16:22:42 astron: apart from that, i think there’s not so much that’s interesting for design
16:22:57 astron: (btw, mirek helped too with the gsoc tasks)
16:24:20 mirek2: :) not very much
16:25:19 mirek2: alright thanks
16:27:01 mirek2: Issa, astron, if you have the time and motivation, could you create a project for our new icon set on git?
16:27:33 mirek2: (not the flat one - I mean Tango testing )
16:27:59 issa: sure, what should I add there?
16:28:36 issa: oh never mind, I thought you said the wiki
16:28:43 mirek2: and perhaps a short guide on how to set up SparkleShare?
16:29:15 astron: issa, you dont have the credentials to the repo, do you?
16:29:20 mirek2: ( just a text file with the steps)
16:29:29 issa: I’m not sure
16:30:44 astron: ill just create that
16:31:30 mirek2: great, thanks
16:31:56 mirek2: topics for today?
16:32:43 issa: did you have anything to say about the flat icons last week?
16:32:43 mirek2: astron, since you’re leaving soon, anything you’d like to discuss?
16:33:53 mirek2: don’t think so, but check the log to make sure
16:34:10 issa: I did, you simply mentioned it
16:35:04 k_peignot: No Issa, We have been waiting for you (we spent LOT of time on design picker),
16:35:07 astron: not really
16:36:16 issa: so any new feedback on the icons?
16:37:15 mirek2: some of the icons seem a bit thick
16:37:59 mirek2:  e.g. the alignment icons
16:38:00 issa: any one in particular?
16:38:03 issa: oh
16:38:27 mirek2: could you post a link to the wiki?
16:38:35 issa: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Flat_icon_set
16:41:54 issa: the alignment icons are thick because I increased the thickness of all lines
16:42:12 issa: maybe I should keep them three lines then?
16:42:58 mirek2: I would prefer it if the large icons used the same line thickness as the small ones
16:43:30 issa: hmm I don’t think they would look good that way
16:43:37 mirek2: I like the 4 lines
16:45:09 mirek2: (that’s usually how icons are upsized)
16:45:34 issa: I see
16:45:43 issa: I’ll try them and see
16:46:22 mirek2: great, thanks :)
16:47:18 issa: no problem
16:49:19 mirek2: also, the highlighter tip seems a bit odd
16:49:54 mirek2: as its not tilted
16:50:25 issa: yeah I struggled a bit with that one
16:50:56 issa: but I think the bigger problem is that the small text color one is too small
16:50:59 mirek2: https://www.google.cz/search?q=highlighter+tip&hl=de&safe=off&client=chrome-mobile&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ZN1NUbHMMuqG4ATehIG4Bg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=752
16:51:30 mirek2: yes, I think so too
16:52:01 mirek2: why not have it the same size as the style options
16:52:22 mirek2: (bold, italic, underline)
16:52:45 issa: because it wouldn’t fit in a square, unless I change the background color icon too
16:54:14 mirek2: I don’t think you’d have to
16:55:43 issa: that would make them slightly inconsistent
16:55:54 astron: i think the inconsistency is ok, too
16:55:56 mirek2: for one thing, background color applies to the paragraph (I believe), while text color to the selection
16:57:31 issa: true
16:58:17 astron:: what do you mean by that or is there an argument still to come?
16:59:30 mirek2: the size difference can be part of the symbolism
16:59:50 astron: oh... ok, i wouldnt go that far, but maybe...
17:00:06 astron: i just think a small inconsistency would be fine there
17:00:51 astron: (what i actually have more of a problem with is that the a and b look so unnatural... but those letters come from the original theme, so...)
17:01:39 issa: unnatural in what sense? they don’t resemble actual letters?
17:02:48 astron: well, they look very constructed (from too simple shapes)
17:03:13 issa: that’s the point
17:03:28 astron: i know, but still, they are really not very pretty
17:03:52 issa: I like the small ones
17:06:01 mirek2: I agree that the large ones don’t look that good
17:07:08 issa: I’ll play with the width and see
17:07:42 mirek2: cool
17:11:17 astron: thanks
17:11:34 astron: another thing that i dont like is the tick in the spell-check icon
17:11:43 astron: it seems really massive
17:12:28 mirek2: I’m thinking whether it might not be better to base the icons on Gnome testing
17:13:03 astron: gnome testing? what is that?
17:13:12 issa: he meant Tango
17:13:24 mirek2: Tango testing
17:13:40 astron: uh... how would that work?
17:13:42 issa: well I’m only talking what seems good
17:14:08 issa: For example the spelling icons are better in Tango testing
17:14:21 astron: let me see...
17:15:14 astron: right, they are quite nice
17:15:31 issa: on the other hand the drawing toolbar icon is bad in both Tango (brush with a drawn L shape) and Tango testing (pen)
17:15:32 astron: even if the text is really really dark and touching heavily
17:16:08 astron: right, the pen is not very tango-y, i  think... (me standard argument :) )
17:16:51 issa: well both of the don’t quite represent their functionality
17:17:20 astron: i guess thats hard...
17:17:43 astron: btw, some time i made a tick whose shape i liked better [ https://dl.dropbox.com/u/87946285/tick.svg ]
17:17:58 astron: ^some time^some time ago
17:18:31 issa: that will take a lot of vertical space
17:20:07 astron: i know, the angles are quite sharp, and if you look at it wrongly, you also might miss it is a tick... so, its not perfect
17:20:45 astron: just an idea
17:21:21 issa: I’ll try it :)
17:21:30 astron: that’s really cool.
17:24:40 astron: next, there was a pdf icon ... but i dont see it anymore
17:25:16 issa: yeah that one was complicated
17:25:52 issa: mirek2 suggested that I have to put it inside a page and I agreed
17:26:03 astron: agree with mirek suggestion
17:26:08 astron: :)
17:26:33 issa: a placeholder is next to the print icons
17:27:43 issa: the space is too small for the pdf icons
17:27:43 astron: ok... dont see it but im only looking at the png anyway
17:28:03 issa: (which I’m not even sure if we can use it)
17:28:12 astron: then, the email icon strikes me as being a bit tall
17:28:12 issa: https://raw.github.com/libodesign/flat-icons/master/context_large.png
17:28:21 issa: to the left of the print icons
17:28:38 mirek2: I agree
17:28:53 astron: ah, you mean the "comma button"...
17:28:58 issa: yes
17:29:16 astron: its only a placeholder though?
17:29:32 issa: I dunno
17:29:58 issa: can you suggest anything better that will fit?
17:30:03 astron: tbh, i wouldnt know what this button does at all
17:30:44 issa: me neither
17:30:50 astron: also, i really have no idea – pdf buttons are really hard to find a metaphor for
17:31:29 issa: that’s why I thought I’d use anything and people should get used to it :P
17:31:49 issa: in a way it’s similar to the current Tango icon but without the PDF label
17:31:50 astron: a document icon with a lock (lock the layout) is really silly and would wrongly suggest encryption... 
17:32:16 issa: also hopefully the final version will be red, so that might give a hint
17:32:34 mirek2: wouldn’t it be best if it looked just like the Tango testing PDF icon
17:32:42 issa: I don’t see how it resembles a lock
17:33:04 astron: issa, i was just thinking of ideas (loudly)
17:33:15 issa: haha ok
17:33:38 astron: "thinking of ideas" – that sounds really dumb...
17:34:16 issa: that’s why they renamed it to brain storming, to sound smart ;)
17:34:50 astron: ^^
17:36:30 astron: ok... back to topic
17:37:49 issa: yes
17:40:44 issa: what happened to the new icon they wanted?
17:41:36 astron: lionel has written back
17:42:19 astron: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Libreoffice-ux-advise-icon-for-toolbar-needed-td4041595.html#d1363329601000-655
17:43:04 astron: its, tbqh, not completely clear to me ... i am not a base user.
17:43:28 issa: me neither, but I’ll try its functionality and the related icons
17:45:12 mirek2: note about the flat table icon: it would be more consistent if it had sharp corners
17:45:30 issa: consistent with...?
17:46:32 mirek2: image icons and the way tables look in LibO
17:47:28 issa: hmm ok
17:50:37 mirek2: anything else about icons?
17:51:00 issa: yes back to the pdf icon
17:51:16 issa: there is the issue of how to fit the pdf logo inside the page
17:51:24 issa: it’s not like there is a lot of space
17:51:40 astron: whats the minimal line thinness you can use?
17:51:43 astron: 1px?
17:51:58 astron: (in the small icons)
17:52:34 issa: yes
17:53:23 mirek2: is the Tango testing somewhere online to see?
17:54:15 astron: hm... yes, on cgit.freedesktop.org
17:54:45 mirek2: Could you post a link?
17:55:05 mirek2: (sorry, everything’s harder on a tablet)
17:55:09 astron: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/plain/icon-themes/tango_testing/cmd/lc_exportdirecttopdf.png
17:55:51 mirek2: thanks
17:57:58 mirek2: wouldn’t that be doable with a flat icon?
17:58:29 issa: I wanted to fit it inside the page
17:58:35 issa: *inside a page
17:58:51 issa: I guess with just a simple border it can be done
17:59:31 issa: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/plain/icon-themes/tango_testing/cmd/sc_exportdirecttopdf.png
17:59:47 issa: (seems like there isn’t a small version)
18:00:13 astron: no, alex made large versions only
18:00:36 mirek2: Can’t the symbol just be sized down?
18:00:49 issa: I see
18:01:21 issa: maybe, but it won’t necessarily be visible
18:03:46 astron: not much use then :/
18:04:28 mirek2: OK - could you try it and post a screen?
18:05:21 issa: ok
18:08:42 mirek2: great
18:20:59 mirek2: any other icon-related comments?
18:21:42 astron: not from me right now... i said the thing with the email icon
18:36:41 mirek2: any other topics?
18:37:39 issa: the pdf icon
18:38:12 issa: http://i.imgur.com/v3K1s4Q.png
18:38:25 issa: (rushed export, sorry)
18:39:25 astron: looks good, actually
18:39:34 mirek2: seems pretty good
18:40:02 mirek2: would be good to maintain the original uneven stroke, though
18:40:12 mirek2: for the final
18:40:24 issa: I think that was on purpose to match the full icon
18:41:05 issa: also I doubt it would mesh well with the rest of the icon, but we’ll see
18:41:16 mirek2: okay
18:41:43 mirek2: anything else?
18:42:03 issa: about icons I don’t think so
18:42:32 k_peignot: Just about the icon picker, two words if nobody else as anything to add about icons
18:42:55 issa: the color picker? go on
18:43:22 astron: allotment of two words for kevin :)
18:44:10 k_peignot: I will try to separate desktop and tablet versions this week. Keeping them "the more identical possible", but trying to solve problems that are different on tablets and desktop
18:44:26 k_peignot: I didn’t have time this week, but I will try
18:44:50 issa: cool
18:44:55 k_peignot: Actually the two biggest thing I see is changing icon height
18:45:00 k_peignot: (5x5 mm)
18:45:32 k_peignot: and for tablet version, having "Old/New" on top (else, they are hidden by your finger)
18:45:55 k_peignot: anything else you see that should be different in each version ?
18:46:40 issa: the tick mark should be replaced with a button in the desktop version
18:46:55 issa: (or was that already done?)
18:47:52 k_peignot: actually, the wiki has the last version https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Color_Picker#Tentative_Design
18:48:25 k_peignot: I don’t really see what oy mean by the button difference.
18:48:53 k_peignot: (Issa, I will also change what you told on the ML, I didn’t had time until net week)
18:49:22 k_peignot: (scuse me, hard keyboard on this poor tablet, and hard english for me :D)
18:49:30 issa: it doesn’t work for me
18:50:12 k_peignot: the link or the design ? D
18:50:33 issa: the link works, but I can’t get the png to show
18:50:48 issa: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/3/33/Color_picker_tentative_v1.png
18:51:05 issa: does this work for you?
18:51:15 k_peignot: ah yes me tto, that’s original I made it with Inkscape, and no problems at home
18:51:23 k_peignot: did you tried the SVG ?
18:51:40 k_peignot: (the link is on the file page, in source part)
18:51:56 issa: yes but was it updated?
18:52:39 k_peignot: yes I think I did too 
18:54:41 k_peignot: I’m trying to share the png via Ubuntu One maybe it’s just corrupted on the wiki
18:55:10 issa: about the tick mark, I meant in the desktop version they use dialog buttons for such actions
18:55:19 issa: (like ok and cancel buttons)
18:55:53 k_peignot: I put OK instead of the tick button already I think
18:56:05 issa: ok good
18:56:09 k_peignot: yes it’s only the wiki corrupted http://ubuntuone.com/5dzsz5Lnu3ZuuTkU2HxYmG
18:56:19 k_peignot: here it works for me 
18:57:35 issa: yes it works here too
18:57:52 issa: when I said dialog button I meant something like this http://i.imgur.com/8CPwbNN.jpg
18:58:34 k_peignot: Ok for the dialog button
18:59:07 k_peignot: I will let the OK but in button style on desktop version, and maybe the tick mark on tablet
18:59:25 issa: great
19:00:07 k_peignot: I anwered yur mails (Mirek, Issa, Medieval) answering your concerns with the previous design, and the changes I did on this one 
19:00:27 issa: yes I read them
19:01:00 k_peignot: I think I solved almost evry of them (_85% I’d sayed)
19:01:11 issa: no more differences I think, the only thing left is that the theme creator label should be added to the button
19:01:46 k_peignot: Yes, I wanted to do this too
19:02:03 k_peignot: I will update you on ML during next week when all of this is done
19:02:21 k_peignot: Mirek, Medieval, all, others concerns about the new design ?
19:02:33 mirek2: sorry, l had to step Out for a while
19:02:39 issa: you don’t have to :)
19:02:57 mirek2: l will post the concerns on the mailing list
19:03:02 k_peignot: (Mirek, I made a two columns grey scale verson to, it’s on the wiki (and working)
19:03:05 k_peignot: Ok no problems
19:03:26 k_peignot: I will noit work on this before monday so you’ve time .
19:04:39 issa: any other topics?
19:05:13 k_peignot: for me, no.
19:05:58 mirek2: can someone past the log on the wiki?
19:06:04 mirek2: post
19:06:48 k_peignot: Me no, not on this tablet (almost impossible)
19:06:48 issa: I arrived late
19:06:50 astron: i can, i think
19:07:05 astron: (unless there was any discussion before i came here)
19:07:19 mirek2: ok, great , thanks
19:07:38 mirek2: no, not really
19:07:58 astron: ok then, have a nice weekend, all
19:08:05 k_peignot: Perfect, thanks Astron.
19:08:19 mirek2: alright, you too
19:08:21 k_peignot: Nice weekend too, to all of you !
19:08:26 k_peignot: Bye !