Design/Meetings/2013-08-03

From The Document Foundation Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Cast

  • mirek
  • mipmap
  • astron

Topics

  • Icons & Text in toolbars
  • Features Overview page

Log

[16:14] <astron> hi all
[16:14] <mirek> hello
[16:14] <astron> elixir, mirek2 – sorry for not replying so far
[16:15] <mirek> oh, the icon labels
[16:15] <mirek> it's fine with me
[16:15] <astron> right. 
[16:16] <astron> anyway, ive worked on a very preliminary list for writer in the mean time
[16:16] <mirek> as it can be hard to sift through all the icons and find which ones don't work well enough
[16:16] <mirek> I think it might be good to bring up on the ml
[16:16] <astron> right
[16:17] <mirek> btw, I was thinking we could replace the current Insert Image (From File...) icon with the Gnome one (without the Insert arrow)
[16:17] <astron> possibly...
[16:18] <mirek> also, any message I should pass on at GUADEC?
[16:18] <mirek> astron247: anything wrong with it
[16:18] <mirek> ?
[16:18] <astron> ah, right, youre at brno at the moment!
[16:18] <mirek> yup
[16:19] <mirek> though listening to lightning talks, so my response time can be slow
[16:19] <astron> hm – it would be cool if you could find out what the plan with documents is, i suppose
[16:19] <mirek> Documents the app?
[16:19] <astron> the app "documents", i mean
[16:19] <astron> yes
[16:19] <mirek> anything you'd like to know in particular?
[16:20] <astron> afaik, it can already edit google drive files via an embedded webkit view
[16:20] <mirek> yup
[16:20] <astron> maybe ask if they plan similar editing capabilities for local documents
[16:20] <mirek> in Drive?
[16:21] <mirek> or an embedded LibreOffice thing?
[16:21] <astron> find it out :)
[16:21] <mirek> ok, I'll ask
[16:21] <mirek> it gives you the option to open documents in LibreOffice
[16:22] <mirek> isn't that enough?
[16:22] <astron> not really
[16:22] <astron> i can do that through nautilus shell plugin much more easily
[16:22] <mirek> yeah
[16:23] <mirek> so you're looking for Drive integration or a streamlined LibreOffice that could run within Documents?
[16:24] <astron> im not looking for it, id like to know what their plan is
[16:24] <astron> (if there is one)
[16:24] <mirek> ok, I'll ask
[16:24] <mirek> anything else?
[16:25] <astron> hm, you could ask everyone what annoys them most about libo…
[16:25] <mirek> :)
[16:25] <astron> and what they like most
[16:25] <mirek> I'm sure there's a lot of stuff
[16:25] <mirek> that can annoy them
[16:25] <astron> right.
[16:25] <mirek> but ok, I'll ask :)
[16:26] <astron> btw, mirek, heres the rationale for the icons+ text change: http://uxmyths.com/post/715009009/myth-icons-enhance-usability
[16:26] <mirek> thanks for that
[16:26] <astron> (maybe especially look at the blog post about outlook)
[16:26] <mirek> though I really don't need convincing
[16:26] <mirek> I agree with you
[16:27] <mirek> wow, quite an inspirational story
[16:28] <mipmap> hello
[16:28] <mirek> hi there
[16:28] <astron> im sure theyve made it a little more convincing – im not convinced people never used toolbars before, but fundamentally, i think theyre right
[16:29] <astron> hi mipmap
[16:29] <mirek> anything we want to discuss today?
[16:29] <mipmap> i uploaded an alpha version of the iconmanager
[16:30] <mirek> oh, right, sorry, I haven't replied to you yet
[16:30] <mipmap> its fine :)
[16:30] <mirek> what's the goal behind the manager, btw?
[16:31] <mipmap> that's pretty much what I would like to discuss. perhaps get some more feedback from mirek about the planet blog redesign. I don't have time to work anything on these projects during august, but I'll continue the work after that
[16:31] <mirek> being able to find your way around icons? Being able to test what an icon looks like among current icons?
[16:32] <mipmap> 1) gather all icons in one place, 2) test an icon with a background 3) tag icons so that you can group icons together
[16:32] <mipmap> thats the basics, the more advanced features would be to make it possible to upload icons
[16:32] <mipmap> primarily pngs,
[16:33] <mipmap> the ultimate goal would be to upload svgs, where the colors are treated like variables, so that you can create your own theme by defining some colors in a table
[16:33] <mipmap> but thats a bit far off. first things first (tagging)
[16:34] <mirek> ok
[16:34] <astron> well, some export function would be cool, too
[16:34] <mipmap> for sure!
[16:35] <mipmap> one thing which I already have found useful is a search link to opengrok
[16:35] <mipmap> find a strange icon, click it, and then in the inspector click the opengrok link
[16:35] <mipmap> then you can see what it's used for in the sourcecode
[16:36] <mipmap> oh, do you think its useful to create a hiearchy of icon-names like gnome has, or is it non-applicable to libreoffice
[16:36] <mirek> that would be useful
[16:37] <mirek> and it's not Gnome only
[16:37] <mipmap> https://developer.gnome.org/icon-naming-spec/
[16:37] <mirek> it's an fdo standard
[16:37] <mipmap> ah
[16:37] <mipmap> what is fdo
[16:37] <mirek> http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html
[16:37] <mirek> freedesktop.org
[16:37] <mipmap> I tried it doing it a little, but everything tends to end up in the action category
[16:38] <mirek> yes
[16:38] <mipmap> but I can make a table for it so that it's supported, then it can be added manually later on
[16:38] <astron> mipmap: thats expected – not everything is an emoticon
[16:38] <mirek> the subcategories are useful there, though
[16:38] <mipmap> ah yes
[16:39] <mipmap> hm, I have not seen the sub-categories before
[16:39] <mipmap> good stuff :)
[16:39] <mirek> the subcategories aren't folders -- they're part of the filename
[16:40] <mipmap> ok
[16:41] <mirek> the spec was created only for common items (it's there so that simple applications could use system icons), so you'll have to derive a name for many LibO icons
[16:42] <mipmap> hm... I think the best approach is to create a table with the listed names and then apply them first to as many icons as possible and then deal with the rest
[16:42] <mirek> yeah, sounds good
[16:42] <mipmap> astron247: how is the feature-page-icons working out?
[16:42] <mirek> btw, you wouldn't be interested in redesigning some icons?
[16:43] <mipmap> I have to learn icon design first :)
[16:43] <mirek> the shape icons are easy, though
[16:43] <mirek> :) ok
[16:43] <mipmap> it was my initial plan but I quickly realized how inefficient it is to just replace some random icon somewhere... so I began working on this tool
[16:44] <astron> mipmap: feature-page-icons?
[16:45] <mipmap> yes, I think we talked a little about some icons for the version features page during the pseudo-meeting last week
[16:45] <mipmap> or perhaps I remember it wrong
[16:46] <astron> ah sorry
[16:46] <astron> i havent done anything yet – no
[16:47] <mirek> btw, could you post the log of that?
[16:47] <mipmap> ok, thats fine :) me neither
[16:47] <mirek> I feel really out of the loop...
[16:48] <mipmap> last week we did not know if we had a meeting or not... but me and astron talked a little about icons for the features page...
[16:49] <astron> sorry – forgot to post
[16:49] <mipmap> http://www.libreoffice.org/features/
[16:50] <mirek> you have the log, though?
[16:50] <mirek> or is the conversation lost?
[16:51] <mipmap> i saved nothing :( 
[16:51] <mirek> that's ok
[16:51] <mipmap> very sloppy
[16:52] <mipmap> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Features_Icons.svg
[16:52] <mipmap> these were the icons we discussed
[16:52] <mirek> ok
[16:52] <mipmap> not much of a conclusion though... apart from perhaps suggesting to the web folks to separate the removed features from the features page
[16:52] <mirek> I'm not too interested in the Features page, so feel free to go ahead without me :)
[16:53] <mipmap> ;)
[16:53] <mirek> some of the icons feel squished, though
[16:53] <mipmap> well, icon design is not my strongest point
[16:53] <mirek> it's best not to resize existing icons, and if you do, make sure you adjust the new version to a pixel grid
[16:53] <mirek> that's fine
[16:53] <mipmap> ok
[16:54] <mipmap> do you make shades and stuff in inkscape or in gimp=
[16:54] <mipmap> *?
[16:54] <mirek> Inkscape
[16:55] <mirek> best for adjusting, making different sizes, and HiDPI screens
[16:55] <mipmap> we also talked about tux, as he might require some attribution(attrition?) to the creators -> problems -> better to make our own tux -> difficult 
[16:56] <mipmap> but thats about it
[16:56] <mirek> there's no public domain tux graphic?
[16:57] <mirek> there are various graphics on openclipart
[16:57] <mirek> not sure if any are good enough, but they do at least provide a good starting point
[16:57] <astron> well ... none of them look particularly good, except the sleeping one
[16:57] <mipmap> yep
[16:57] <astron> also, i think we could live with giving attribution
[16:58] <mirek> anyway, as I said, I'm not too interested in the Features page
[16:58] <mipmap> ok :) lets move on
[16:58] <mirek> I was kind of hoping we could sort through the Writer options
[16:59] <mirek> unless there's anything else you'd like to discuss?
[16:59] <mipmap> I have nothing more, but I have also not given any thought to the options project
[17:00] <mirek> ok
[17:00] <mirek> we basically go through each Option and decide on how important it is
[17:00] <mipmap> ok
[17:00] <mirek> if removing it would make LibO unusable, it stays
[17:00] <mirek> if it's useful, but not key, it goes into Advanced options
[17:01] <mirek> (we'll have a new dialog or an Options section for that)
[17:01] <mipmap> ok
[17:02] <mirek> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Options/Writer
[17:03] <mirek> should we go through them, or do you want to discuss something else?
[17:03] <mipmap> hm, in writer, if you click the print option category, do you experience lag?
[17:03] <mirek> elixir: are you there?
[17:04] <mipmap> im ready when you are
[17:05] <mirek> no, the print option dialog is there right away
[17:05] <astron> mipmap: no lag
[17:05] <astron> maybe its checking for printers there?
[17:05] <mipmap> perhaps its just me then
[17:05] <mipmap> yeah I think so
[17:05] <astron> (mine currently isnt connected)
[17:06] <mirek> mine neither
[17:06] <mipmap> mirek2: do you want to wait for elixir?
[17:06] <mirek> no, that's alright
[17:06] <mirek> he hasn't said a word since the beginning of the talk
[17:07] <mipmap> perhaps sleeping 
[17:07] <mipmap> #Update links when loading
[17:07] <mipmap> (first category)
[17:09] <mipmap> I vote for advanced since it is something you can do by a menu option as well (update fields)
[17:09] <mirek> I have to go now, sorry
[17:09] <astron> mirek2: last weeks log is now up
[17:09] <mirek> the lightning talks just ended
[17:10] <mipmap> aw great
[17:10] <mirek> we're going to find a vegan restaurant now
[17:10] <mirek> see you next week
[17:10] <mipmap> ok :) 
[17:10] <mirek> see you :)
[17:10] <astron> well, bye
[17:11] <mipmap> bye
[17:11] <mirek> btw, both of you have the whole log
[17:11] <mirek> so don't forget to upload it
[17:11] <mipmap> nope
[17:11] <astron> well, shall we finish here?
[17:12] <mipmap> perhaps, unless you have anything more
[17:12] <astron> not really, and id rather leave too
[17:13] <mipmap> it's better to do the categorization of those options with more people
[17:13] <mipmap> ok, lets call it a day
[17:13] <astron> more people only have more opinions, so maybe not :)
[17:13] <astron> ill upload the log
[17:13] <mipmap> true true
[17:13] <astron> bye!
[17:13] <mipmap> thx