Design/Meetings/2013-08-03
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Cast
- mirek
- mipmap
- astron
Topics
- Icons & Text in toolbars
- Features Overview page
Log
[16:14] <astron> hi all [16:14] <mirek> hello [16:14] <astron> elixir, mirek2 – sorry for not replying so far [16:15] <mirek> oh, the icon labels [16:15] <mirek> it's fine with me [16:15] <astron> right. [16:16] <astron> anyway, ive worked on a very preliminary list for writer in the mean time [16:16] <mirek> as it can be hard to sift through all the icons and find which ones don't work well enough [16:16] <mirek> I think it might be good to bring up on the ml [16:16] <astron> right [16:17] <mirek> btw, I was thinking we could replace the current Insert Image (From File...) icon with the Gnome one (without the Insert arrow) [16:17] <astron> possibly... [16:18] <mirek> also, any message I should pass on at GUADEC? [16:18] <mirek> astron247: anything wrong with it [16:18] <mirek> ? [16:18] <astron> ah, right, youre at brno at the moment! [16:18] <mirek> yup [16:19] <mirek> though listening to lightning talks, so my response time can be slow [16:19] <astron> hm – it would be cool if you could find out what the plan with documents is, i suppose [16:19] <mirek> Documents the app? [16:19] <astron> the app "documents", i mean [16:19] <astron> yes [16:19] <mirek> anything you'd like to know in particular? [16:20] <astron> afaik, it can already edit google drive files via an embedded webkit view [16:20] <mirek> yup [16:20] <astron> maybe ask if they plan similar editing capabilities for local documents [16:20] <mirek> in Drive? [16:21] <mirek> or an embedded LibreOffice thing? [16:21] <astron> find it out :) [16:21] <mirek> ok, I'll ask [16:21] <mirek> it gives you the option to open documents in LibreOffice [16:22] <mirek> isn't that enough? [16:22] <astron> not really [16:22] <astron> i can do that through nautilus shell plugin much more easily [16:22] <mirek> yeah [16:23] <mirek> so you're looking for Drive integration or a streamlined LibreOffice that could run within Documents? [16:24] <astron> im not looking for it, id like to know what their plan is [16:24] <astron> (if there is one) [16:24] <mirek> ok, I'll ask [16:24] <mirek> anything else? [16:25] <astron> hm, you could ask everyone what annoys them most about libo… [16:25] <mirek> :) [16:25] <astron> and what they like most [16:25] <mirek> I'm sure there's a lot of stuff [16:25] <mirek> that can annoy them [16:25] <astron> right. [16:25] <mirek> but ok, I'll ask :) [16:26] <astron> btw, mirek, heres the rationale for the icons+ text change: http://uxmyths.com/post/715009009/myth-icons-enhance-usability [16:26] <mirek> thanks for that [16:26] <astron> (maybe especially look at the blog post about outlook) [16:26] <mirek> though I really don't need convincing [16:26] <mirek> I agree with you [16:27] <mirek> wow, quite an inspirational story [16:28] <mipmap> hello [16:28] <mirek> hi there [16:28] <astron> im sure theyve made it a little more convincing – im not convinced people never used toolbars before, but fundamentally, i think theyre right [16:29] <astron> hi mipmap [16:29] <mirek> anything we want to discuss today? [16:29] <mipmap> i uploaded an alpha version of the iconmanager [16:30] <mirek> oh, right, sorry, I haven't replied to you yet [16:30] <mipmap> its fine :) [16:30] <mirek> what's the goal behind the manager, btw? [16:31] <mipmap> that's pretty much what I would like to discuss. perhaps get some more feedback from mirek about the planet blog redesign. I don't have time to work anything on these projects during august, but I'll continue the work after that [16:31] <mirek> being able to find your way around icons? Being able to test what an icon looks like among current icons? [16:32] <mipmap> 1) gather all icons in one place, 2) test an icon with a background 3) tag icons so that you can group icons together [16:32] <mipmap> thats the basics, the more advanced features would be to make it possible to upload icons [16:32] <mipmap> primarily pngs, [16:33] <mipmap> the ultimate goal would be to upload svgs, where the colors are treated like variables, so that you can create your own theme by defining some colors in a table [16:33] <mipmap> but thats a bit far off. first things first (tagging) [16:34] <mirek> ok [16:34] <astron> well, some export function would be cool, too [16:34] <mipmap> for sure! [16:35] <mipmap> one thing which I already have found useful is a search link to opengrok [16:35] <mipmap> find a strange icon, click it, and then in the inspector click the opengrok link [16:35] <mipmap> then you can see what it's used for in the sourcecode [16:36] <mipmap> oh, do you think its useful to create a hiearchy of icon-names like gnome has, or is it non-applicable to libreoffice [16:36] <mirek> that would be useful [16:37] <mirek> and it's not Gnome only [16:37] <mipmap> https://developer.gnome.org/icon-naming-spec/ [16:37] <mirek> it's an fdo standard [16:37] <mipmap> ah [16:37] <mipmap> what is fdo [16:37] <mirek> http://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-naming-spec/icon-naming-spec-latest.html [16:37] <mirek> freedesktop.org [16:37] <mipmap> I tried it doing it a little, but everything tends to end up in the action category [16:38] <mirek> yes [16:38] <mipmap> but I can make a table for it so that it's supported, then it can be added manually later on [16:38] <astron> mipmap: thats expected – not everything is an emoticon [16:38] <mirek> the subcategories are useful there, though [16:38] <mipmap> ah yes [16:39] <mipmap> hm, I have not seen the sub-categories before [16:39] <mipmap> good stuff :) [16:39] <mirek> the subcategories aren't folders -- they're part of the filename [16:40] <mipmap> ok [16:41] <mirek> the spec was created only for common items (it's there so that simple applications could use system icons), so you'll have to derive a name for many LibO icons [16:42] <mipmap> hm... I think the best approach is to create a table with the listed names and then apply them first to as many icons as possible and then deal with the rest [16:42] <mirek> yeah, sounds good [16:42] <mipmap> astron247: how is the feature-page-icons working out? [16:42] <mirek> btw, you wouldn't be interested in redesigning some icons? [16:43] <mipmap> I have to learn icon design first :) [16:43] <mirek> the shape icons are easy, though [16:43] <mirek> :) ok [16:43] <mipmap> it was my initial plan but I quickly realized how inefficient it is to just replace some random icon somewhere... so I began working on this tool [16:44] <astron> mipmap: feature-page-icons? [16:45] <mipmap> yes, I think we talked a little about some icons for the version features page during the pseudo-meeting last week [16:45] <mipmap> or perhaps I remember it wrong [16:46] <astron> ah sorry [16:46] <astron> i havent done anything yet – no [16:47] <mirek> btw, could you post the log of that? [16:47] <mipmap> ok, thats fine :) me neither [16:47] <mirek> I feel really out of the loop... [16:48] <mipmap> last week we did not know if we had a meeting or not... but me and astron talked a little about icons for the features page... [16:49] <astron> sorry – forgot to post [16:49] <mipmap> https://www.libreoffice.org/features/ [16:50] <mirek> you have the log, though? [16:50] <mirek> or is the conversation lost? [16:51] <mipmap> i saved nothing :( [16:51] <mirek> that's ok [16:51] <mipmap> very sloppy [16:52] <mipmap> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Features_Icons.svg [16:52] <mipmap> these were the icons we discussed [16:52] <mirek> ok [16:52] <mipmap> not much of a conclusion though... apart from perhaps suggesting to the web folks to separate the removed features from the features page [16:52] <mirek> I'm not too interested in the Features page, so feel free to go ahead without me :) [16:53] <mipmap> ;) [16:53] <mirek> some of the icons feel squished, though [16:53] <mipmap> well, icon design is not my strongest point [16:53] <mirek> it's best not to resize existing icons, and if you do, make sure you adjust the new version to a pixel grid [16:53] <mirek> that's fine [16:53] <mipmap> ok [16:54] <mipmap> do you make shades and stuff in inkscape or in gimp= [16:54] <mipmap> *? [16:54] <mirek> Inkscape [16:55] <mirek> best for adjusting, making different sizes, and HiDPI screens [16:55] <mipmap> we also talked about tux, as he might require some attribution(attrition?) to the creators -> problems -> better to make our own tux -> difficult [16:56] <mipmap> but thats about it [16:56] <mirek> there's no public domain tux graphic? [16:57] <mirek> there are various graphics on openclipart [16:57] <mirek> not sure if any are good enough, but they do at least provide a good starting point [16:57] <astron> well ... none of them look particularly good, except the sleeping one [16:57] <mipmap> yep [16:57] <astron> also, i think we could live with giving attribution [16:58] <mirek> anyway, as I said, I'm not too interested in the Features page [16:58] <mipmap> ok :) lets move on [16:58] <mirek> I was kind of hoping we could sort through the Writer options [16:59] <mirek> unless there's anything else you'd like to discuss? [16:59] <mipmap> I have nothing more, but I have also not given any thought to the options project [17:00] <mirek> ok [17:00] <mirek> we basically go through each Option and decide on how important it is [17:00] <mipmap> ok [17:00] <mirek> if removing it would make LibO unusable, it stays [17:00] <mirek> if it's useful, but not key, it goes into Advanced options [17:01] <mirek> (we'll have a new dialog or an Options section for that) [17:01] <mipmap> ok [17:02] <mirek> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Options/Writer [17:03] <mirek> should we go through them, or do you want to discuss something else? [17:03] <mipmap> hm, in writer, if you click the print option category, do you experience lag? [17:03] <mirek> elixir: are you there? [17:04] <mipmap> im ready when you are [17:05] <mirek> no, the print option dialog is there right away [17:05] <astron> mipmap: no lag [17:05] <astron> maybe its checking for printers there? [17:05] <mipmap> perhaps its just me then [17:05] <mipmap> yeah I think so [17:05] <astron> (mine currently isnt connected) [17:06] <mirek> mine neither [17:06] <mipmap> mirek2: do you want to wait for elixir? [17:06] <mirek> no, that's alright [17:06] <mirek> he hasn't said a word since the beginning of the talk [17:07] <mipmap> perhaps sleeping [17:07] <mipmap> #Update links when loading [17:07] <mipmap> (first category) [17:09] <mipmap> I vote for advanced since it is something you can do by a menu option as well (update fields) [17:09] <mirek> I have to go now, sorry [17:09] <astron> mirek2: last weeks log is now up [17:09] <mirek> the lightning talks just ended [17:10] <mipmap> aw great [17:10] <mirek> we're going to find a vegan restaurant now [17:10] <mirek> see you next week [17:10] <mipmap> ok :) [17:10] <mirek> see you :) [17:10] <astron> well, bye [17:11] <mipmap> bye [17:11] <mirek> btw, both of you have the whole log [17:11] <mirek> so don't forget to upload it [17:11] <mipmap> nope [17:11] <astron> well, shall we finish here? [17:12] <mipmap> perhaps, unless you have anything more [17:12] <astron> not really, and id rather leave too [17:13] <mipmap> it's better to do the categorization of those options with more people [17:13] <mipmap> ok, lets call it a day [17:13] <astron> more people only have more opinions, so maybe not :) [17:13] <astron> ill upload the log [17:13] <mipmap> true true [17:13] <astron> bye! [17:13] <mipmap> thx