Design/Meetings/2013-11-06

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Topics

• Start Center

Attendees

• astron
• kendy
• mirek2

Log

[15:28] <kendy> Hi there!
[15:28] <astron> hi
[15:28] <kendy> I'm sorry - had a conflict
[15:28] <kendy> How are things?
[15:29] <mirek2> busy for me
[15:29] <mirek2> not much in the way of libreoffice, though
[15:30] <mirek2> so, about the start center, what kind of changes can you make?
[15:31] <mirek2> thanks for replying to the ml, btw
[15:31] <mirek2> it sounds like a sidebar is no problem
[15:32] <mirek2> I assume native widgets are a requirement
[15:33] <mirek2> I wonder how you feel about the proposals for what to display when there are no documents
[15:33] <kendy> Yes; so the sidebar-like approach is the easiest from my point of view.
[15:33] <mirek2> I think so too
[15:33] <kendy> Wrt. the empty space - the light LibreOffice logo is trivial
[15:34] <kendy> The short text could be doable; but might be some work
[15:34] <kendy> [short text saying there are no recent documents]
[15:34] <mirek2> ok
[15:34] <kendy> But I am not sure if it is necessary to write that at all
[15:34] <kendy> The logo itself is welcoming enough in my book :-)
[15:35] <mirek2__> yes, but it doesn't exactly get the point across...
[15:36] <mirek2__> it's not immediately obvious that recent documents will appear there
[15:36] <kendy> Yes, but does the user really care?
[15:36] <kendy> I mean - if I don't have a  recent documents, I don't care they'll appear there.
[15:36] <kendy> When they start appearing, I might be wondering what is that thing that appeared there
[15:37] <mirek2__> it's a problem if a user gets a dialog and doesn't know what it's for
[15:37] <kendy> But before this happens, I am happy because I don't know :-)
[15:38] <kendy> Then I'd go with a tooltip "Recently used documents will be appearing here"
[15:38] <mirek2__> but that's still not immediately clear
[15:38] <mirek2__> I was wondering if we could do something like http://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers_years/2013_1/elementary-noise-buggy-find-music.jpg
[15:39] == mirek2 [56311b91@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.49.27.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
[15:39] <mirek2__> anyway, I'd really prefer to have some text indicating what's to appear :)
[15:40] <kendy> Then I'd prefer "Start a new document, or open an existing one, to see recently used documents here."
[15:40] <kendy> But "No recent documents" is not really welcoming ;-)
[15:40] <mirek2__> sounds good
[15:40] <kendy> OK, deal :-)
[15:40] <astron> just as an idea in between -- maybe it would be good if the start centre started out smaller than a normal window and without a menu bar, kind of like we know it from windows cd burner tools
[15:41] <mirek2__> that's exactly wht I was suggesting :)
[15:41] <astron> (but without the garish theming these tools usually have)
[15:41] <kendy> astron: I'd prefer not to erase the menubar for good; in case there are users who actually use that
[15:42] <astron> oh, then consider yourself +1'd, mirek
[15:42] <mirek2__> :)
[15:42] <astron> kendy: just in the start centre
[15:42] <kendy> astron: Because currently the accelerators are taken from that one
[15:42] <mirek2__> kendy: I think what we're asking for is for the SC to act like an independent dialog
[15:43] <kendy> astron: So you wouldn't be able to open the file dialog with an accelerator
[15:43] <kendy> mirek2__: Yes; I guess we are getting there ;-)
[15:43] <kendy> mirek2__: But as a start, I'd just minimize the amount of items in the menu
[15:43] <astron> and thered be no way to keep the accels in sync with how they are in other parts of libo if you didnt take them from the menu?
[15:44] <kendy> mirek2__: The cut / paste / ... things etc.
[15:44] <kendy> But keep there the file functionality for now
[15:44] <kendy> astron: Probably there would be a way, but needs more work to find out if yes
[15:44] <kendy> astron: And I am extremely  busy these days unfortunately :-(
[15:45] <mirek2__> I guess the menu can't be removed due to macOS requiring it, but perhaps it could be hidden by default?
[15:45] <kendy> astron: So searching for ways how to do things with minimal amount of work, and maximal effect ;-)
[15:45] <astron> ok. then in some way just hiding the menu bar from sight? (hack-ish, but maybe easier)
[15:46] <kendy> Is it really so big issue to have File and Help there?
[15:47] <kendy> And File just containing New, Open, and Quit?
[15:47] <mirek2__> all these small things add up
[15:47] <mirek2__> and make a big difference in the end
[15:48] <mirek2__> but if it's too much work, I think we can live with it for now
[15:48] <mirek2__> is there some way to size the window independently from the modules it opens?
[15:48] <kendy> Can check if it has a Hide() method that would work;
[15:49] <kendy> but still would prefer to keep the menu there.
[15:49] <kendy> I already hear the users complaining ;-)
[15:49] <kendy> Wrt. the window size, I think it works that way already
[15:50] <kendy> Ah no, I lie
[15:50] <mirek2__> perhaps show the menu when pushing Alt then? (I think that's how Firefox used to do it when it removed its menu bar)
[15:51] <astron> mirek2__ that is an antipattern started by MS with the Vista version of the Windows Explorer actually
[15:51] <kendy> I'd say - let's minimize the menubar as the first thing [only File and Help, end even those minimized], and see?
[15:52] <mirek2__> let's add help and some other things to the sidebar, first, though
[15:52] <mirek2__> kendy: ok, sure :)
[15:53] <kendy> Uh, help is not in the http://i.imgur.com/RUfcMlw.jpg , where should it be+
[15:53] <kendy> ?
[15:54] <mirek2__> at the bottom?
[15:54] <mirek2__> I hope we'll have a final design by the end of the week
[15:54] <kendy> OK