Design/Meetings/2013-11-06

    From The Document Foundation Wiki

    Topics

    • Start Center

    Attendees

    • astron
    • kendy
    • mirek2

    Log

    [15:28] <kendy> Hi there!
    [15:28] <astron> hi
    [15:28] <kendy> I'm sorry - had a conflict
    [15:28] <kendy> How are things?
    [15:29] <mirek2> busy for me
    [15:29] <mirek2> not much in the way of libreoffice, though
    [15:30] <mirek2> so, about the start center, what kind of changes can you make?
    [15:31] <mirek2> thanks for replying to the ml, btw
    [15:31] <mirek2> it sounds like a sidebar is no problem
    [15:32] <mirek2> I assume native widgets are a requirement
    [15:33] <mirek2> I wonder how you feel about the proposals for what to display when there are no documents
    [15:33] <kendy> Yes; so the sidebar-like approach is the easiest from my point of view.
    [15:33] <mirek2> I think so too
    [15:33] <kendy> Wrt. the empty space - the light LibreOffice logo is trivial
    [15:34] <kendy> The short text could be doable; but might be some work
    [15:34] <kendy> [short text saying there are no recent documents]
    [15:34] <mirek2> ok
    [15:34] <kendy> But I am not sure if it is necessary to write that at all
    [15:34] <kendy> The logo itself is welcoming enough in my book :-)
    [15:35] <mirek2__> yes, but it doesn't exactly get the point across...
    [15:36] <mirek2__> it's not immediately obvious that recent documents will appear there
    [15:36] <kendy> Yes, but does the user really care?
    [15:36] <kendy> I mean - if I don't have a  recent documents, I don't care they'll appear there.
    [15:36] <kendy> When they start appearing, I might be wondering what is that thing that appeared there
    [15:37] <mirek2__> it's a problem if a user gets a dialog and doesn't know what it's for
    [15:37] <kendy> But before this happens, I am happy because I don't know :-)
    [15:38] <kendy> Then I'd go with a tooltip "Recently used documents will be appearing here"
    [15:38] <mirek2__> but that's still not immediately clear
    [15:38] <mirek2__> I was wondering if we could do something like http://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers_years/2013_1/elementary-noise-buggy-find-music.jpg
    [15:39] == mirek2 [56311b91@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.49.27.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
    [15:39] <mirek2__> anyway, I'd really prefer to have some text indicating what's to appear :)
    [15:40] <kendy> Then I'd prefer "Start a new document, or open an existing one, to see recently used documents here."
    [15:40] <kendy> But "No recent documents" is not really welcoming ;-)
    [15:40] <mirek2__> sounds good
    [15:40] <kendy> OK, deal :-)
    [15:40] <astron> just as an idea in between -- maybe it would be good if the start centre started out smaller than a normal window and without a menu bar, kind of like we know it from windows cd burner tools
    [15:41] <mirek2__> that's exactly wht I was suggesting :)
    [15:41] <astron> (but without the garish theming these tools usually have)
    [15:41] <kendy> astron: I'd prefer not to erase the menubar for good; in case there are users who actually use that
    [15:42] <astron> oh, then consider yourself +1'd, mirek
    [15:42] <mirek2__> :)
    [15:42] <astron> kendy: just in the start centre
    [15:42] <kendy> astron: Because currently the accelerators are taken from that one
    [15:42] <mirek2__> kendy: I think what we're asking for is for the SC to act like an independent dialog
    [15:43] <kendy> astron: So you wouldn't be able to open the file dialog with an accelerator
    [15:43] <kendy> mirek2__: Yes; I guess we are getting there ;-)
    [15:43] <kendy> mirek2__: But as a start, I'd just minimize the amount of items in the menu
    [15:43] <astron> and thered be no way to keep the accels in sync with how they are in other parts of libo if you didnt take them from the menu?
    [15:44] <kendy> mirek2__: The cut / paste / ... things etc.
    [15:44] <kendy> But keep there the file functionality for now
    [15:44] <kendy> astron: Probably there would be a way, but needs more work to find out if yes
    [15:44] <kendy> astron: And I am extremely  busy these days unfortunately :-(
    [15:45] <mirek2__> I guess the menu can't be removed due to macOS requiring it, but perhaps it could be hidden by default?
    [15:45] <kendy> astron: So searching for ways how to do things with minimal amount of work, and maximal effect ;-)
    [15:45] <astron> ok. then in some way just hiding the menu bar from sight? (hack-ish, but maybe easier)
    [15:46] <kendy> Is it really so big issue to have File and Help there?
    [15:47] <kendy> And File just containing New, Open, and Quit?
    [15:47] <mirek2__> all these small things add up
    [15:47] <mirek2__> and make a big difference in the end
    [15:48] <mirek2__> but if it's too much work, I think we can live with it for now
    [15:48] <mirek2__> is there some way to size the window independently from the modules it opens?
    [15:48] <kendy> Can check if it has a Hide() method that would work;
    [15:49] <kendy> but still would prefer to keep the menu there.
    [15:49] <kendy> I already hear the users complaining ;-)
    [15:49] <kendy> Wrt. the window size, I think it works that way already
    [15:50] <kendy> Ah no, I lie
    [15:50] <mirek2__> perhaps show the menu when pushing Alt then? (I think that's how Firefox used to do it when it removed its menu bar)
    [15:51] <astron> mirek2__ that is an antipattern started by MS with the Vista version of the Windows Explorer actually
    [15:51] <kendy> I'd say - let's minimize the menubar as the first thing [only File and Help, end even those minimized], and see?
    [15:52] <mirek2__> let's add help and some other things to the sidebar, first, though
    [15:52] <mirek2__> kendy: ok, sure :)
    [15:53] <kendy> Uh, help is not in the http://i.imgur.com/RUfcMlw.jpg , where should it be+
    [15:53] <kendy> ?
    [15:54] <mirek2__> at the bottom?
    [15:54] <mirek2__> I hope we'll have a final design by the end of the week
    [15:54] <kendy> OK