Design/Meetings/2014-10-22
TDF LibreOffice Document Liberation Project Community Blogs Weblate Nextcloud Redmine Ask LibreOffice Donate
Link
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Minutes-of-the-Design-Hangout-2014-10-22-td4126627.html
Minutes
Oct 22, 2014; 2:12pm Jan Holesovsky-4
Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-10-22
* Present: Alex, Cor, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Luke
* Completed Action Items:
+ Kendy: Find somebody to transfer articles from redmine wiki to TDF
[K-J volunteered on the list, thanks so much!]
+ Heiko: File a bug about better description of tooltip (sidebar - spacing).
+ "Increase Spacing" should be "Increase Paragraph Spacing", same for decrease
[done https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85340]
+ Heiko, Jay: Come up with a set of questions for the survey wrt. cut / copy / paste.
+ brainstorm at the last meeting: remove all; remove just cut / copy; what
the users use; what is acceptable; etc.
[done, and polished during the meeting]
* Pending Action Items:
+ Samuel: Create an easy hack - describe what tables should be striped,
and how to do that in the code
+ Jay: Update the Insert field button's icon
[tried to create a new icon instead of overwriting - unfortunately due
to the technical reasons it has to be overwritten]
+ Kendy: Dropdown for the line spacing instead of the 3 icons (reuse the sidebar dropdown).
[done some research, not completely trivial, but doable]
* UI changes integrated the last week:
+ fixed some minor problems with existing sifr icons (Jay)
* Hiding of cut, copy, paste buttons from writer's standard toolbar (Jay)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84909
+ Heiko + Jay will come up with a set of questions for the survey, and
we'll review it at the next meeting
+ presented the blog post draft
+ would like to have screenshots (Kendy)
+ would like to have more options there - remove all copy/cut/paste,
remove copy/cut + leave paster, leave everything (Kendy)
+ like the idea with the survey - maybe explain that we can come up with additional questions if needed (... whatever that may be ;) )(Cor)
+ should be possible to add notes to the survey (Cor)
+ in case there is even another way to achieve the functionality (Cor)
+ we should cover all the options (Heiko)
+ indeed not too complicated - since it's not scientific - we know little
bout numbers and the public - we must have the room to make our own good
_interpretation_ of the results. (Cor)
+ do the users understand the paste vs. paste special (Heiko)
+ Conclusion: Reached the wording of the Cut/Copy/Paste question.
+ lovely survey now :) (cor)
AI + Heiko, Jay: Get the screenshots + publish later this week / early next week.
* Hiding of paragraph background (Jay, Heiko)
+ Can we have pictures in the blog post? (Kendy)
+ before + after the hiding? (Jay)
+ yes, would be awesome (Heiko, Kendy)
+ Conclusion: Agreed the wording.
* Wrench icons (Kendy)
+ both properties and styles now use wrench (Kendy)
+ shouldn't we in fact change the icons there some way?
+ no idea what we'd ask in the survey ;-) (Kendy)
+ we should change the icons (Heiko)
+ previously a triangualar ruler - at least in Tango testing (Alex)
+ can see it (Jay)
AI + Alex, Jay: Brainstorm a bit about a good representation of
styles / properties
* Collecting the user information (Kendy)
+ prototype working
+ now it is possible to switch it on and off in Tools -> Options... -> General -> Privacy
+ add that it's anonymous (Cor)
+ please feel free to update the wording, and push to gerrit (Kendy)
+ or give me the better wording to push that (Kendy)
+ and on use of menu and toolbars and such ..(Cor)
+ if this is that it does not track yet from where it was called, then
yes, this is still not implemented (Kendy)
+ need the server part
+ see what / how Mozilla is doing it
+ hopefully we could re-use the code of the server part?
+ http://blog.mozilla.org/metrics/2011/08/25/do-90-of-people-not-use-ctrlf/
+ https://testpilot.mozillalabs.com/
+ https://testpilot.mozillalabs.com/testcases/beta/aggregated-data.html
+ server source code? - this is for the web...
+ hg clone http://hg.mozilla.org/labs/testpilotweb
+ https://wiki.mozilla.org/Labs/Test_Pilot/ExperimentAPI
+ not much stuff to re-use, sadly
* Flipping of icons in LTR (Heiko)
+ existing functionality
+ just one icon looks strange when flipped (numbering)
+ just a normal bug, nothing extremely serious
* Windows Large Icons (Jay)
+ Has code landed to make this possible Kendy?
AI + Kendy: Push that.
* 6 Icon Themes
+ is it a good idea, if there is no capacity to even finish such an important icon theme as Sifr,
to have 6 weak themes instead of let's say 3 or 4 good ones?
+ Do we have data on what themes are being used by users? Do users even know how to adjust icon themes?
+ Remove old themes
+ Industrial: Seems to be not available in the UI
+ Crystal: Looks like KDE3 - we have Oxygen for the KDE4 look
+ What about the classic theme? (tar.gz file)
+ Make Tango the new base theme instead of Galaxy
+ Tango Classic, as current Tango isn't good with these black icons (Jay)
+ They're certainly much better than the older ones, that had frames and tiny lines
Don't see the need to create a 3rd (!) duplicate of the Tango theme. (Adolfo)
+ The new dark icons are taken from the Gnome tango icon set
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Desktop_icons
User Comments
+ foersom: Icons in LibreOffice 4.3 looks worse than earlier versions.
http://www.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/2hyz7m/are_small_toolbar_icons_good/cl2o6aa
+ How the tango set looks in 4.3 (dark icons) vs 4.2 (blue and grey icons)
http://i.imgur.com/WyxQELp.png
Users on IRC
mjayfrancis: 4.3 spellcheck icons seem somehow muddier. The rest are mostly an improvement
Chen: visualy ver 4.2 is better then 4.3
+ Image posted on twitter - http://i.imgur.com/4SCQaA0.png - https://twitter.com/jphilipz/status/524532470138413058/photo/1
Cor: New, the charactrs in the left 3 are too bold.
Sophi: new ones, but with less thickness
DubaiKnight1976: I prefer the old one tbh... new 1 would be fine if its less thick i think
- irc -
slacka: I'd say the old, but I do like the thicker lines of the new bold, italics, underline and 4 alignment icons.
I think I'd be fine with the new if the I and II were changed to 1 and 2 (numbering) and the hollow red arrow was made a solid red arrow (indent)
and really happy if the Abc (spellcheck) was as clear as the old. l and ll is not a good symbel for 1 and 2. � I also think the hollow
blue dot might be more clear if it was filled
ohallot: old
Papamatti: The new ones are way better than the old ones!
iplaw67: old. the new are just too unclear, particularly Bold and Italic.
beluga: the black glossy look on the new icons makes them unclear. the gloss in unneeded as an effect. well from the text alignment onwards it's readable
steve_-_: I'd opt for the bottom row. drawback is the first two icons on the left which are hard to see in the new proposal
+ How long will tango_testing still exist? Why hasn't it been merged with Tango already?
+ ~all new icons were moved to https://github.com/libodesign/icons, so it can probably be removed (Alex)
+ These should probably be moved into the official Tango icon theme
+ There doesn't seem to be any guideline for how/if new icons are moved into the official repo
+ many of them still worth preserving (Jay)
+ let's not remove them (Jay)
+ number of icons in tango_testing that are really good & should go to Tango (Jay)
+ sounds to me as something that would fit a survey too (Kendy)
+ how many questions should we ask? (Heiko)
+ can be a separate survey, you can create an own (Heiko)
+ can try it (Heiko)
+ would be good to have screenshot of the toolbar (Kendy)
AI + Heiko/Jay: Think of a survey; how to measure which icon sets should we include in the installation set?
+ previous studies have shown that the Tango is really good (Heiko)
+ no problem to introduce to one more set (Tango classic), but what goes into the
installation should be a result of the survey (Kendy)