Design/Meetings/2014-10-22

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    Link

    http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Minutes-of-the-Design-Hangout-2014-10-22-td4126627.html

    Minutes

    Oct 22, 2014; 2:12pm Jan Holesovsky-4
    Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-10-22
    
    * Present: Alex, Cor, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Luke
     
    * Completed Action Items:
    
        + Kendy: Find somebody to transfer articles from redmine wiki to TDF
          [K-J volunteered on the list, thanks so much!]
        + Heiko: File a bug about better description of tooltip (sidebar - spacing).
            + "Increase Spacing" should be "Increase Paragraph Spacing", same for decrease
          [done https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85340]
        + Heiko, Jay: Come up with a set of questions for the survey wrt. cut / copy / paste.
            + brainstorm at the last meeting: remove all; remove just cut / copy; what
              the users use; what is acceptable; etc.
          [done, and polished during the meeting]
     
    * Pending Action Items:
     
        + Samuel: Create an easy hack - describe what tables should be striped,
          and how to do that in the code
        + Jay: Update the Insert field button's icon
          [tried to create a new icon instead of overwriting - unfortunately due
           to the technical reasons it has to be overwritten]
        + Kendy: Dropdown for the line spacing instead of the 3 icons (reuse the sidebar dropdown).
          [done some research, not completely trivial, but doable]    
     
    * UI changes integrated the last week:
     
        + fixed some minor problems with existing sifr icons (Jay)
     
    * Hiding of cut, copy, paste buttons from writer's standard toolbar (Jay)
     
        + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84909
        + Heiko + Jay will come up with a set of questions for the survey, and
          we'll review it at the next meeting
        + presented the blog post draft
        + would like to have screenshots (Kendy)
        + would like to have more options there - remove all copy/cut/paste,
          remove copy/cut + leave paster, leave everything (Kendy)
        + like the idea with the survey - maybe explain that we can come up with additional questions if needed (... whatever that may be ;) )(Cor)
        + should be possible to add notes to the survey (Cor)
            + in case there is even another way to achieve the functionality (Cor)
            + we should cover all the options (Heiko)
        + indeed not too complicated - since it's not scientific - we know little
          bout numbers and the public - we must have the room to make our own good
          _interpretation_ of the results. (Cor)
        + do the users understand the paste vs. paste special (Heiko)
        + Conclusion: Reached the wording of the Cut/Copy/Paste question.
        + lovely survey now :) (cor)
    AI  + Heiko, Jay: Get the screenshots + publish later this week / early next week.
     
    * Hiding of paragraph background (Jay, Heiko)
     
        + Can we have pictures in the blog post? (Kendy)
            + before + after the hiding? (Jay)
            + yes, would be awesome (Heiko, Kendy)
        + Conclusion: Agreed the wording.
     
    * Wrench icons (Kendy)
     
        + both properties and styles now use wrench (Kendy)
            + shouldn't we in fact change the icons there some way?
                + no idea what we'd ask in the survey ;-) (Kendy)
        + we should change the icons (Heiko)
        + previously a triangualar ruler - at least in Tango testing (Alex)
            + can see it (Jay)
    AI  + Alex, Jay: Brainstorm a bit about a good representation of
          styles / properties
     
    * Collecting the user information (Kendy)
     
        + prototype working
        + now it is possible to switch it on and off in Tools -> Options... -> General -> Privacy
            + add that it's anonymous (Cor)
                + please feel free to update the wording, and push to gerrit (Kendy)
                + or give me the better wording to push that (Kendy)
            + and on use of menu and toolbars and such ..(Cor)
                + if this is that it does not track yet from where it was called, then
                  yes, this is still not implemented (Kendy)
        + need the server part
            + see what / how Mozilla is doing it
            + hopefully we could re-use the code of the server part?
                + http://blog.mozilla.org/metrics/2011/08/25/do-90-of-people-not-use-ctrlf/
                + https://testpilot.mozillalabs.com/
            + https://testpilot.mozillalabs.com/testcases/beta/aggregated-data.html
            + server source code? - this is for the web...
                + hg clone http://hg.mozilla.org/labs/testpilotweb
                + https://wiki.mozilla.org/Labs/Test_Pilot/ExperimentAPI
            + not much stuff to re-use, sadly
     
    * Flipping of icons in LTR (Heiko)
     
        + existing functionality
        + just one icon looks strange when flipped (numbering)
        + just a normal bug, nothing extremely serious
     
    * Windows Large Icons (Jay)
     
        + Has code landed to make this possible Kendy?
    AI      + Kendy: Push that.
     
    * 6 Icon Themes
     
        + is it a good idea, if there is no capacity to even finish such an important icon theme as Sifr,
          to have 6 weak themes instead of let's say 3 or 4 good ones?
        + Do we have data on what themes are being used by users? Do users even know how to adjust icon themes?
        + Remove old themes
            + Industrial: Seems to be not available in the UI
            + Crystal: Looks like KDE3 - we have Oxygen for the KDE4 look
        + What about the classic theme? (tar.gz file)
        + Make Tango the new base theme instead of Galaxy
        + Tango Classic, as current Tango isn't good with these black icons (Jay)
            + They're certainly much better than the older ones, that had frames and tiny lines
              Don't see the need to create a 3rd (!) duplicate of the Tango theme. (Adolfo)
            + The new dark icons are taken from the Gnome tango icon set
              https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/GNOME_Desktop_icons
              User Comments
                + foersom: Icons in LibreOffice 4.3 looks worse than earlier versions.
                  http://www.reddit.com/r/libreoffice/comments/2hyz7m/are_small_toolbar_icons_good/cl2o6aa
            + How the tango set looks in 4.3 (dark icons) vs 4.2 (blue and grey icons)
              http://i.imgur.com/WyxQELp.png
              Users on IRC
               mjayfrancis: 4.3 spellcheck icons seem somehow muddier. The rest are mostly an improvement
               Chen: visualy ver 4.2 is better then 4.3
            + Image posted on twitter - http://i.imgur.com/4SCQaA0.png - https://twitter.com/jphilipz/status/524532470138413058/photo/1
               Cor: New, the charactrs in the left 3 are too bold.
               Sophi: new ones, but with less thickness
               DubaiKnight1976: I prefer the old one tbh... new 1 would be fine if its less thick i think
               - irc -
               slacka: I'd say the old, but I do like the thicker lines of the new bold, italics, underline and 4 alignment icons.
                        I think I'd be fine with the new if the I and II were changed to 1 and 2  (numbering) and the hollow red arrow was made a solid red arrow  (indent)
                         and really happy if the Abc (spellcheck) was as clear as the old. l and  ll is not a good symbel for 1 and 2. � I also think the hollow
                        blue dot might be more clear if it was filled
               ohallot: old
               Papamatti: The new ones are way better than the old ones!
               iplaw67: old. the new are just too unclear, particularly Bold and Italic.
                beluga: the black glossy look on the new icons makes them unclear. the  gloss in unneeded as an effect. well from the text alignment onwards  it's readable
                steve_-_: I'd opt for the bottom row. drawback is the first two icons  on the left which are hard to see in the new proposal
        + How long will tango_testing still exist? Why hasn't it been merged with Tango already?
            + ~all new icons were moved to https://github.com/libodesign/icons, so it can probably be removed (Alex)
            + These should probably be moved into the official Tango icon theme
                + There doesn't seem to be any guideline for how/if new icons are moved into the official repo
            + many of them still worth preserving (Jay)
                + let's not remove them (Jay)
                + number of icons in tango_testing that are really good & should go to Tango (Jay)
        + sounds to me as something that would fit a survey too (Kendy)
            + how many questions should we ask? (Heiko)
            + can be a separate survey, you can create an own (Heiko)
        + can try it (Heiko)
        + would be good to have screenshot of the toolbar (Kendy)
    AI  + Heiko/Jay: Think of a survey; how to measure which icon sets should we include in the installation set?
        + previous studies have shown that the Tango is really good (Heiko)
        + no problem to introduce to one more set (Tango classic), but what goes into the
          installation should be a result of the survey (Kendy)