Design/Meetings/2014-11-12

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Link

http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Minutes-of-the-Design-Hangout-2014-11-12-tt4129528.html

Minutes

 Nov 19, 2014; 1:24am Jan Holesovsky-4
 Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-11-12

* Present: Ahmed, Cor, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Steve, Stuart
 
* Completed Action Items:
    + Jay: Bug report that custom and used styles should appear in the
      Styles dropdown.
           https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85930
    + Jay: Update Writer, Impress + Draw to include "Align" like in
      "Align Left", "Align Right" etc.
    + Jay: Update svx/uiconfig/ui/paralinespacingcontrol.ui with better
      icons (cmd/something...)
    + Jay: Hide the paragraph background toolbar button.
    + Jay: "List of Changes..." -> "Manage Changes..."
    + Samuel: Change sidebar so that that it returns to the previous
      state when you eg. use F11 twice.
    + Kendy: Set updating reference to false for 4.4
    + Kendy: Push patch to default to large icons even on Windows.
      [we do that on all the other operating systems already anyway]
 
* Pending Action Items:
 
    + Kendy: Create Easy Hack for images.zip layering (if it does not
      exist yet)
        + And also Easy Hack for downloading additional themes?
    + Kendy: GSoC task (or so) for converting "Manage Changes..." to
      sidebar (instead of non-modal dialog)
    + Kendy: Adjust alignment and spacing in line spacing drop down -
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83076#c11
    + Samuel: Sidebar - hide the decks, but keep the sidebar (only the
      icons) there.
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85935
      [Kendy - please take this over. Can't figure that out (Samuel)]
    + Samuel: Add Close menu entry in the sidebar's menu that acts like
      View -> Sidebar toggle
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85937
           
* Conference logo
    + Conference logo: https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/710
        + Not many responses about it in ml:
          http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg06785.html
          k-j is working on it.
    + at the moment we don't have many artists for bigger graphics
    + should we advertise that on the social media etc.? (Kendy)
AI      + redmine thread - will add, and also twitter + G+ (Jay)
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:
 
    + Select and toggle off master elements in Impress via Delete (Caolan)
    + Toolbar drop down menus are added to bullet and numbering buttons (Maxim)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85789
    + Writer statusbar will show zoom features at 800 pixels width (Samuel)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86018
        + Makes the toolbar a bit too wide? (Kendy)
AI      + Will check (Jay)
    + Calc toolbar revamp using OOo stats (Jay)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85594
    + Impress toolbar revamp using OOo stats (Jay)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84909
    + Unifying the click behaviour in statusbar (Samuel)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82707
    + Add missing statusbar toolips (Samuel)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82708
    + Default to large toolbar icons on Windows (Kendy)
 
* Last week's discussions that need a resolution:
 
    + "Gallery" was renamed to "Clip Art Gallery" in the sidebar (Jay)
      felt the use of the word 'Gallery' wouldnt be wise as i've
      proposed new sidebar tabs like 'Styles Gallery'
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86040
      https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/430
        + changed that, is that suitable? (Jay)
        + primary reason: better understanding, because gallery may mean
          many things (Jay)
        + but the problem is that there might be also sounds and other
          stuff (Jay)
        + another possibility might be a "Styles Gallery" (Jay)
            + if we talking the tooltip, could be "Gallery - Clip Arts,
              Sounds and more"? (Kendy)
AI      + will try if the long tooltip can be there, if not, revert (Jay)

    + Adding View > Graphics (Jay, Adolfo)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86184
        + possibilities to turn on / off things like the non-printing
          characters, etc. (Jay)
        + not sure about the use case (Kendy)
            + if something is slow, we should make it faster in the
              first place :-) (Kendy)
            + the speed is not the only thing - might be useful
              otherwise (Jay)
        + would prefer not to introduce this :-) (Kendy)
        + let's leave it for the moment as is & see more in the issue

    + Merge Document being outside of the Track Changes submenu (Jay, Cor)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85046
        + changed to main entry in the Edit (Jay)
        + I like this (Kendy)
        + no disagreement - let's try this for the feature freeze
           + oppose: it's contrary to the nature of the feature... pls
             read comment #8 (Cor)
 
* Alex pasted this in the google chat while we were at last week's
  meeting (Jay)

    + Hi Jan, I can't join this week since I have a lab report that's
      due. What might be worth discussing is whether we want to go for
      a flatter look regarding the text icons:
      the second one in https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/attachments/download/358/bold%20icon.svg
      All the flat text icons: https://github.com/libodesign/icons/blob/master/text.svg
        + icons too dark in the 4.3 (Jay)
        + did some polls on this on twitter etc. (Jay)
        + Alex suggested an icon with a plain color
        + best to have decide between Jay and Alex (Kendy)
            + both look fine to me (Kendy)
            + likes the 2nd one (the Jay's one) (Ahmed)
        + in general, best if you agree between the guys doing the
          icons :-) (Kendy)
            + of course, if something becomes controversial, please
              bring it to the meeting
 
* HIG's
 
    + LibreOffice uses the GNOME HIG's (Kendy)
        + but which ones? - there are 2 different ones ;-) (Heiko)
    + https://developer.gnome.org/hig-book/3.2/design-window.html.en (Kendy)
        + "This version of the Human Interface Guidelines was written
          for designers and developers of GNOME 2 applications....")
    + HIG for Gtk3:
      http://blogs.gnome.org/aday/2014/08/21/new-human-interface-guidelines-for-gnome-and-gtk/
      not finished, AFAIK, (Heiko)
 
* Pushing text wrap into calc 4.3 (Jay)
 
    + https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/12254
    + pushed now

* Important shortcuts additions (Jay)

    + shortcut for AutoSpellcheck (ctrl+shift+F7 globally used by
      Hangul/Hanja Conversion, shift+F7 used by trace presedents in
      calc)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82969#c5
        + important when we don't have that in toolbar any more (Jay)
        + what about Alt+F7? (Kendy)
            + will check (Jay)
            + but Alt is not good for a general shortcut (Heiko)
        + conclusion: Least problematic is to switch Shift+F7
    + shortcut for track changes (ctrl+shift+E newly taken up by Edit Mode)
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86183
        + MS Office uses Ctrl+Shift+E
        + but the Ctrl+Shift+E is recent addition (Kendy)
            + so still can be changed; let's find something new for the
              Edit Mode (Kendy)
AI          + OK (Jay)

* Menu Improvements (Jay)
 
    + File menu - https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=109001
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85945
       + I like it (Kendy)
    + Impress View Menu - https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=109353
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86209
       + quite unorganized (Jay)
       + rearranged to be more similar to other modules (Jay)
       + I like it too (Kendy)
    + any objections to these re-works?
       + no objections
 
* Clipboard and background color survey result published (Jay, Heiko)
 
    + http://user-prompt.com/de/standard-toolbar-in-libreoffice/
    + clarification of stance that i had last week
       + Kendy misinterpreted the conclusion a bit at the ESC - not
         necessary to get more data, more important to allow smoother
         transition (Kendy)
    + google docs leaves only the paste and format painter, so this
      might be a good first step to get people off the toolbar for
      clipboard functions
       + I like this approach (Kendy)
       + conclusion: let's try to remove Cut + Copy for 4.5
    + Arguments: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84848
* Sifr survey preliminary results (Heiko)

     + https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BYyV9O4frnRrcwyxIZly_7gGQp8zhdKGilHi7CQ3v64/edit?usp=sharing
     + results relating to which icon sets to keep
     + ~60% use tango (46% stick with default), 21% use sifr, 8% use
       oxygen, 6% galaxy, 3% crystal
     + 41% windows, 52% linux, 6% mac
     + on mac: its a 50/50 split between sifr and tango, though
       47% don't change the default tango
     + would be good to get what the breakdown of icon sets used by
       different OSes (Jay)

                Crystal Galaxy Hicontrast Human no answer Oxygen Predefined Sifr Tango
  Linux (GTK+)        0      3          0     5         0      1         31   19    18
  Linux (other)       0      1          0     2         0      2         11    5     3
  Linux (Qt)          2      3          0     0         0     16         19   13     2
  Mac OS              0      0          0     0         0      0          9    8     2
  no answer           0      0          0     0         1      0          1    1     0
  Windows             6     12          1     0         2      4         69   18    12

        Crystal     Galaxy  Hicontrast no answer  Human   Oxygen Predefined   Sifr      Tango

  Low Usage           4      2          0          3          0         7         48         13          9
  High Usage          4     17          1          0          7         16         92         51         28

             Crystal     Galaxy   Hicontrast   Human  no answer     Oxygen Predefined       Sifr      Tango
Age <40         5         11          0          6          2         15         93         50         24
Age >40         3          8          1          1          1          8         47         14         13

* Survey to revamp Calc toolbar (Jay, Heiko)

     + http://user-prompt.com/how-do-you-want-libreoffice-calcs-toolbar-configured/

* Opening track changes toolbar (Jay)

    + toolbar should open when opening document with track changes
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83958
    + toolbar should open whe user clicks Edit > Track Changes > Record
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85741
    + would be useful (Kendy)
    + would need the possibility to turn off the auto-popping up tooo (Cor)
        + as it is with the tables / bullets etc. toolbars
AI  + who will do that? :-) - find out (Kendy)

* Automatic small or large icons for all platforms (Jay)

    + With automatic set for icon sizes in LO, below 1280 should be set
      to small.
    + not on the other OS'es, and people did not complain (Kendy)

* Sifr Icons (Kendy)
 
    + got SVG sources from many people, Big Thank You! (Kendy)
        + now need to categorize that a bit
        + TODO count coverage / create page showing the progress
        + Papamatti and Jay are working on improving sifr icons, so
          there are a number of new or modified icons that arent in the
          SVG sources, but are available on github.
    + current state?
      https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/35
      (papamatti working on it).
    + problem pushing - cannot push any more (Ahmed)
        + https://github.com/libodesign/flat-icons - old, locked
        + https://github.com/libodesign/icons
            + new one
            + has 2 layers - one for Tango, the other for Sifr
            + helps to get the idea from Tango, and draw Sifr
AI:     + will ask Mirek for access to the new repo (Ahmed)
 
* Making sifr default on Mac (Steve, Jay)

    + with Mac OSX now having flat icons, it would be useful to have
      sifr as default
    + how iWork Pages looks now - http://i.imgur.com/P5X7FSt.jpg
    + we should want to promote the icon set build by LibO, as Mac OSX
      is a good starting spot
    + sifr incomplete - is there a technical solution for the missing
      icons?
        + like change the colors of the HiContrast to something gray? (Kendy)
        + does not look like it is possible to use it that way (Steve)
        + Writer by default already complete (Steve)
            + and the fastest evolving icon theme (Steve)
    + Sifr icons improvements
      https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/35?r=439
    + conclusion: Let's do it for 4.4
        + if too problematic for people, can revert for the final
          release (Kendy)
        + fixing / introducing new icons in the beta phase is not an
          issue (Kendy)
        + could post a note to
          https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42082
AI  + Will do the switch (Kendy), Steve can test then, has a Mac
    + any plans for Sifr to work as hicontrast? (Heiko)
        + Sifr uses one color, the rest is handled by transparency (Jay)
        + easy to do this programmaticaly then :-) (Kendy)
            + just to change this color to any other on the fly - white
              for Hicontrast eg. (Kendy)
 
* Similar base code for impress and draw causing problems (Jay)
  https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84258
 
    + they are sharing the same code, which is causing problems with
      labels and icons
    + the word 'slide' appearing in draw
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84208
    + the word 'page' appearing in impress
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84257
    + shouldn't be hard to add appropriate .uno: commands (Kendy)
        + sort one out, and Easy Hack-ize the others?
        + add what .uno: commands need such handling to the bug
AI      + will collect them (Jay)
 
* Controversial changes in bugzilla (Cor)
 
    + when a consensus is reached, can still go to 4.4 if it is a bugfix (Kendy)
    + if it is a feature - then either can be approved as a late feature
      (via ESC)
        + or has to wait for 4.5 (Kendy)
 
* Sidebar Issues (Jay)
 
    + Swapping increase and decrease buttons in Sidebar
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85776
    + cropped elements
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79758
    + adding style drop down
      https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73071
    + OK to change as you think should be best (Kendy)
        + its (supposed to be) not open by default, not expect changes
          to be controversial