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Meeting of the QA Team previous - next
Date and Time (UTC)	2013-11-18 19:30 UTC
G+ Hangout	[ This Meeting]
Chair	Robinson Tryon
Secretary	Robinson Tryon
Started	19:35
Adjourned	21:00
Participants	Robinson, Joel, Florian R., Sophie, Tommy, Thomas, Joren, Stuart
Pad	http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/qa
Talkyoo Room Number	537138

Prep

Joel suggested we do prep with call members ahead of time so that they know how to
1. Connect (via Hangouts or Talkyoo)
2. Mute and/or Find a quiet room

Should we start the call a few minutes early to help newcomers? (Robinson)
Yes  -- Add a note to the times for the next QA Call
Added a note to the Talkyoo page about muting your microphone by default (Joel)
Similar note added to QA Etherpad (Robinson)

Agenda + Minutes

Minutes:
Content from the meeting itself ("the minutes") will be displayed in blue boxes like this.

Start

Meeting started at: 19:35
Participants: Robinson, Joel, Florian R., Sophie, Tommy, Thomas, Joren, Stuart
Notes:

The State of QA

Including any Opening Discussion

UNCONFIRMED Bugs

UNCONFIRMED bug count:

November 4th: 1189
Today (18th): 1144
Difference: -45

Awesome! Keep up the good work!

Topics for ESC?

Does anyone have any topics/concerns that I should bring to the Engineering Steering Committee (ESC)? (Robinson)

Need_Advice Bugs

Need_Advice bugs

I'm going to bring up the following bugs:

tdf#43692 - FORMATTING text:use-soft-page-breaks not honoured - Waiting for Miklos (or someone else)
tdf#45644 - Inconsistent behavior of table.Borderline in Writer and Calc
~~tdf#47474 - missing "ParentWindow" property on XUIElementFactory::createUIElement API - UNO/API ask Michael Stahl or S Bergmann~~ - Got update from Michael Stahl on this one.

Bjoern was concerned we might see a spike in the number of unconfirmed bugs with the release of Ubuntu, but didn't happen (Joel)
Particularly annoying FTP bug (Joel)
tdf#62981 - FILEOPEN: Speadsheet display nothing in file xls on ftp sever
Had trouble duplicating this bug; marked as NEEDINFO (Robinson)

Discussion

"Ask, Bugzilla and Planet TDF's twitter accounts"

(see Zeki's email for details)

Is anyone in QA interested in taking the reins of the Bugzilla twitter account?

Anyone want the LibreOffice Bugzilla twitter account? (Robinson)
This twitter account is an EasyHack (Florian R.)
Usefulness? (Joel)
Leave it as read-only feed? (Robinson)
ACTION: - Robinson will talk to Zeki, get creds for the QA Team and make it a read-only feed

User perception of QA and Bugzilla

Example from this week: Tanstaafl's email - "The 'new' website is...difficult to navigate...My simple goal was to log into the Bug system, check 'My Bugs' and see [stuff]....What if I don't want to report a bug, but only want to search for bugs?...How do I just log into the bug reporting system and search it? Anyone?"
Charles is leading the website redesign in Marketing.
- What input would QA like to have in this process?

Some easy way to see all of the teams and join one (Joel)
Tell our users it's not complicated
Think this is related to our Feedback page (Florian)
Agreed. Starting with the Feedback page and moving to our community pages, we need to convey an appropriate feeling (Robinson)
Point of contacts? Actual people?  Not a leader, but someone who can answer questions (Joel)
Mentors? (Robinson)
Lists are a good place to go, but overhead of joining and overload of multiple responses can be daunting (Joel)
ACTION: Joel will email to QA List about message we'd like to convey to Marketing/Website for community involvement

Pending Items

PENDING ITEM: BugReport Page

[SUPERSEDED] ACTION: Connect with local team leaders (monthly meeting?) and work to interact with those teams in a different way (Robinson)

ACTION: Robinson will talk w/sophie later about best way to interact w/local teams
I'm gonna organize a meeting for RC1 with all the teams (Sophie)

PENDING ITEM: QA Website

[DONE] ACTION: Florian R. will set up QA Website work as a QA EasyHack

SOLVED! tdf#71755 - (Florian R.)

PENDING ITEM: Tollef and Bugzilla TODOs and planning

[DONE] ACTION: 1st draft of proposal -> send to QA List (Robinson)
- Nov 9th - Created proposal and sent to QA list (Robinson)
  - QA/Bugzilla/LibreOffice Bugzilla Proposal
- Topics to discuss:
  - Outstanding work:
    - Dennis Roczek volunteering to help automate changes on the wiki.
    - Identify all remaining tools/websites/etc.. dependent on Bugzilla
  - Abbreviation: blo#12345

Older:

ACTION: Get Tollef to activate voting on FDO (merged item)
ACTION: Get Tollef to add BOLD statement to each FDO mail sent out to not reply via mail (merged item)
ACTION: Get Tollef to clarify 'version' label in Bugzilla (merged item)
ACTION: Will track the filed bug and wait to hear updates (re: Bold statement on FDO mail)
ACTION: Continue discussion (long-term) of move to Locally-hosted Bugzilla

Robinson - Unsure when Tollef will be done
What if we can't migrate for a few months? (Joel)
Cloph set up bugs.documentfoundation.org -> bugs.freedesktop.org, so no sweat: We can use the redirect indefinitely (Robinson)
Fine with "B-L-O" but when pronounced as "BLOW" it's... not ideal (Stuart)
What about "LOB" ? (Tommy)
What about "TDF" ? (Stuart)
ACTION: Robinson will bring blo, lob, tdf, libo to ESC and ask them for input

PENDING ITEM: Update the whiteboard/keywords page

[SUPERSEDED] ACTION: Joel will update the whiteboard/keywords page

ACTION: Joel will turn this into an EasyHack and work on it (slowly)

PENDING ITEM: Bibisect Repositories

ACTION: Combine existing bibisect repos into one (starting pre-fork) (Robinson)

Made up a page about it QA/Bibisect/Bibisectzilla
Just need to sit down with Bjoern and hash details out
Size may be an issue for some contributors (Joel)
however, many problems with zsync (and large downloads), so perhaps much better for volunteers and for project bandwidth with git (Joel)
IDEA: Add bibisect into regular Developer workflow (Joel)
Would be two different repos, but might be something here we could do w/automated script (Robinson)
IDEA: Is there a way to figure out what LO versions correspond to this commit in master? (Joel)
Yes -- we could make a graph that showed if...
A particular build incorporated this commit and 'all' previous commits.
A particular build cherry-picked in this commit (but not all previous commits)

PENDING ITEM: GUI for Bibisect

[DONE] ACTION: Joel will talk to Cor about (possibly working on) the bibisect GUI
ACTION: Punt on implementation until after we have bibisect repos up and running (All)

Cor is happy to review, but doesn't have time to write code (Joel)

PENDING ITEM: Feedback pages

[DONE] ACTION: Robinson will go ahead with the Feedback page idea (and ping Rob)
- Nov 5 - First draft of Feedback Page is now up - Suggestions/patches welcome :-)
  - Test Install
  - Git repo

Cloph suggests that we create a page in Silverstripe
Use localization tools built-in
Anyone interested in this project?
ACTION: Sophie will create page in silverstripe

PENDING ITEM: Most Annoying Bug List

ACTION: Joel will propose stricter guidelines for what qualifies as a MAB
- Nov 5 - Here's a mockup of a new visualization toy we can use to keep track of MABs, in particular which versions have had testing (Robinson)

Whiteboard is becoming convoluted -> perhaps better formatting when we have our own bugtracker? (Joel)
MAB-Mockup: (Robinson)
Useful tool to do lots of powerful QA querying
Note that there's a way to indicate the earliest commit in which this bug shows up (usually located via bibisect)

PENDING ITEM: Keeping track of bug statistics

[DONE] ACTION: Joel will come up with what statistics we want to track (just a couple for starters) and send to Rob
[DONE] ACTION: Rob will script up a first draft of stats report based on what Joel sends him

Rob did some great work here: https://bugassistant.libreoffice.org/libreoffice/stats/stats.html
Florian R.: https://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/si-gui/stats/?C=M;O=D

Rob knows what he wants to do here...wants to include charts (Joel)
There'd be a drop-down. Could show stats for any period over time
It would be great to try to merge this into the Bugzilla code and push upstream (Robinson)
If there's anything you're particularly interested in (stats-wise), ping Rob and ask him to add it (Joel)
Looking at the stats, looks like we need to focus some time there (almost 400 outstanding)
Thomas - Many (old) Writer bugs are hard to confirm/hard to know what they are talking about
If it's hard to understand repro steps, feel free to make a note and toss them into NEEDINFO state (Robinson)
ACTION: Joel and Joren will triage old Writer bugs; see if things need Need_Advice tag

PENDING ITEM: Updates to the BSA

ACTION: Remove EOL versions from the BSA and implement 'please update' message (Rob)

General agreement to include (Joel)
Currently supported (stable) builds
Latest RC of each release branch

PENDING ITEM: Tag Repro Needs in Whiteboard

[DONE] ACTION: Implement webpage displaying lists of NeedsXYZ bugs (Robinson)
- Oct 29 - First draft of Bug Presenter
- Nov 4 - Now on GitHub

[Punting to Nov 18 because we didn't have many people on the call at this point on Nov 4th]

Joel - PossibleRegression] tag should be looked at regularly

PENDING ITEM: QA Contest T-shirts

[DONE] ACTION: Pick a printer and get the shirts printed (Robinson)
- November 4 - Quote received from printer; printing now underway (Robinson)

T-shirts are done and sent!
Happy to see this done! (Joel/Robinson)
If you would like to purchase one, we have a few left (contact me for details)
If you're on the list to receive one, please send us an Action picture (e.g. you hard at work traiging bugs :-) wearing the shirt.
And thank you for your patience here... :-)

Long-term/Frozen Pending Items

These are long-term or frozen items (i.e. on ice until something else happens) that we don't want to forget about...

PENDING ITEM: What to do with FDO bugs filed against Extensions, Templates

ACTION: Joel will continue to monitor the situation

PENDING ITEM: Talk to CS Department/others at University

ACTION: Put up a message on the message board at his University and see who is interested (Joel)

PENDING ITEM: Hackfests

ACTION: USA involvement in hackfests -- (Keep on the agenda, discuss on QA list) (All)

New Action Items

All items proposed between meetings go here

NEW ITEM: Title (Author)

New Items (Proposed/Discussed at the Meeting)

NEW ITEM: Start Center and Sidebar (Stuart)There are some big issues with the Start Center and Sidebar in 4.2
tdf#61914 - META: Tweak the new template manager to act as a start center [a11y]
tdf#65138 - [META] Sidebar feature related issues
Points:
Interest in having me (Robinson) bring up some points to ESC
We need to get keyboard navigation working properly under the new GTK UI widget designs.
tdf#70449 - StartCenter: it is not possible to easily navigate through recent used files with the keyboard
tdf#71628 - ACCESSIBILITY: new GTK+ UI start center keyboard navigation not acceptable [a11y]
ACTION: Stuart will break this out into multiple pieces
ACTION: Stuart will prepare talking points for Robinson before Thursday's ESC call

Announcements

ANNOUNCEMENT: Our next meeting will take place... December 2nd (Friday) at 19:30 UTC, unless otherwise noted on the QA/Mailing List.

End

Meeting adjourned at: 21:00

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