QA/Meetings/2013/November 18

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Meeting of the QA Team

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Date and Time (UTC) 2013-11-18 19:30 UTC
G+ Hangout [ This Meeting]
Chair Robinson Tryon
Secretary Robinson Tryon
Started 19:35
Adjourned 21:00
Participants Robinson, Joel, Florian R., Sophie, Tommy, Thomas, Joren, Stuart
Pad http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/qa
Talkyoo Room Number 537138

Prep

  • Joel suggested we do prep with call members ahead of time so that they know how to
    1. Connect (via Hangouts or Talkyoo)
    2. Mute and/or Find a quiet room
  • Should we start the call a few minutes early to help newcomers? (Robinson)
  • Yes -- Add a note to the times for the next QA Call
  • Added a note to the Talkyoo page about muting your microphone by default (Joel)
    • Similar note added to QA Etherpad (Robinson)

Agenda + Minutes

Minutes:

Content from the meeting itself ("the minutes") will be displayed in blue boxes like this.


Start

  • Meeting started at: 19:35
  • Participants: Robinson, Joel, Florian R., Sophie, Tommy, Thomas, Joren, Stuart

Notes:

The State of QA

Including any Opening Discussion

UNCONFIRMED Bugs

UNCONFIRMED bug count:

  • November 4th: 1189
  • Today (18th): 1144
  • Difference: -45
  • Awesome! Keep up the good work!

Topics for ESC?

Does anyone have any topics/concerns that I should bring to the Engineering Steering Committee (ESC)? (Robinson)

Need_Advice Bugs

Need_Advice bugs

I'm going to bring up the following bugs:

  • tdf#43692 - FORMATTING text:use-soft-page-breaks not honoured - Waiting for Miklos (or someone else)
  • tdf#45644 - Inconsistent behavior of table.Borderline in Writer and Calc
  • tdf#47474 - missing "ParentWindow" property on XUIElementFactory::createUIElement API - UNO/API ask Michael Stahl or S Bergmann - Got update from Michael Stahl on this one.
  • Bjoern was concerned we might see a spike in the number of unconfirmed bugs with the release of Ubuntu, but didn't happen (Joel)
  • Particularly annoying FTP bug (Joel)
    • tdf#62981 - FILEOPEN: Speadsheet display nothing in file xls on ftp sever
    • Had trouble duplicating this bug; marked as NEEDINFO (Robinson)

Discussion

"Ask, Bugzilla and Planet TDF's twitter accounts"

(see Zeki's email for details)

  • Is anyone in QA interested in taking the reins of the Bugzilla twitter account?
  • Anyone want the LibreOffice Bugzilla twitter account? (Robinson)
    • This twitter account is an EasyHack (Florian R.)
      • Usefulness? (Joel)
    • Leave it as read-only feed? (Robinson)
      • ACTION: - Robinson will talk to Zeki, get creds for the QA Team and make it a read-only feed

User perception of QA and Bugzilla

  • Example from this week: Tanstaafl's email - "The 'new' website is...difficult to navigate...My simple goal was to log into the Bug system, check 'My Bugs' and see [stuff]....What if I don't want to report a bug, but only want to search for bugs?...How do I just log into the bug reporting system and search it? Anyone?"
  • Charles is leading the website redesign in Marketing.
    • What input would QA like to have in this process?
  • Some easy way to see all of the teams and join one (Joel)
    • Tell our users it's not complicated
  • Think this is related to our Feedback page (Florian)
    • Agreed. Starting with the Feedback page and moving to our community pages, we need to convey an appropriate feeling (Robinson)
    • Point of contacts? Actual people? Not a leader, but someone who can answer questions (Joel)
      • Mentors? (Robinson)
      • Lists are a good place to go, but overhead of joining and overload of multiple responses can be daunting (Joel)
  • ACTION: Joel will email to QA List about message we'd like to convey to Marketing/Website for community involvement

Pending Items

PENDING ITEM: BugReport Page

  • [SUPERSEDED] ACTION: Connect with local team leaders (monthly meeting?) and work to interact with those teams in a different way (Robinson)
  • ACTION: Robinson will talk w/sophie later about best way to interact w/local teams
    • I'm gonna organize a meeting for RC1 with all the teams (Sophie)

PENDING ITEM: QA Website

  • [DONE] ACTION: Florian R. will set up QA Website work as a QA EasyHack

PENDING ITEM: Tollef and Bugzilla TODOs and planning

  • [DONE] ACTION: 1st draft of proposal -> send to QA List (Robinson)
    • Nov 9th - Created proposal and sent to QA list (Robinson)
    • Topics to discuss:
      • Outstanding work:
        • Dennis Roczek volunteering to help automate changes on the wiki.
        • Identify all remaining tools/websites/etc.. dependent on Bugzilla
      • Abbreviation: blo#12345

Older:

  • ACTION: Get Tollef to activate voting on FDO (merged item)
  • ACTION: Get Tollef to add BOLD statement to each FDO mail sent out to not reply via mail (merged item)
  • ACTION: Get Tollef to clarify 'version' label in Bugzilla (merged item)
  • ACTION: Will track the filed bug and wait to hear updates (re: Bold statement on FDO mail)
  • ACTION: Continue discussion (long-term) of move to Locally-hosted Bugzilla
  • Robinson - Unsure when Tollef will be done
  • What if we can't migrate for a few months? (Joel)
    • Cloph set up bugs.documentfoundation.org -> bugs.freedesktop.org, so no sweat: We can use the redirect indefinitely (Robinson)
  • Fine with "B-L-O" but when pronounced as "BLOW" it's... not ideal (Stuart)
    • What about "LOB" ? (Tommy)
    • What about "TDF" ? (Stuart)
  • ACTION: Robinson will bring blo, lob, tdf, libo to ESC and ask them for input

PENDING ITEM: Update the whiteboard/keywords page

  • [SUPERSEDED] ACTION: Joel will update the whiteboard/keywords page
  • ACTION: Joel will turn this into an EasyHack and work on it (slowly)

PENDING ITEM: Bibisect Repositories

  • ACTION: Combine existing bibisect repos into one (starting pre-fork) (Robinson)
  • Made up a page about it QA/Bibisect/Bibisectzilla
  • Just need to sit down with Bjoern and hash details out
  • Size may be an issue for some contributors (Joel)
    • however, many problems with zsync (and large downloads), so perhaps much better for volunteers and for project bandwidth with git (Joel)
  • IDEA: Add bibisect into regular Developer workflow (Joel)
    • Would be two different repos, but might be something here we could do w/automated script (Robinson)
  • IDEA: Is there a way to figure out what LO versions correspond to this commit in master? (Joel)
    • Yes -- we could make a graph that showed if...
      1. A particular build incorporated this commit and 'all' previous commits.
      2. A particular build cherry-picked in this commit (but not all previous commits)

PENDING ITEM: GUI for Bibisect

  • [DONE] ACTION: Joel will talk to Cor about (possibly working on) the bibisect GUI
  • ACTION: Punt on implementation until after we have bibisect repos up and running (All)
  • Cor is happy to review, but doesn't have time to write code (Joel)

PENDING ITEM: Feedback pages

  • [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will go ahead with the Feedback page idea (and ping Rob)
    • Nov 5 - First draft of Feedback Page is now up - Suggestions/patches welcome :-)
  • Cloph suggests that we create a page in Silverstripe
    • Use localization tools built-in
  • Anyone interested in this project?
    • ACTION: Sophie will create page in silverstripe

PENDING ITEM: Most Annoying Bug List

  • ACTION: Joel will propose stricter guidelines for what qualifies as a MAB
  • Whiteboard is becoming convoluted -> perhaps better formatting when we have our own bugtracker? (Joel)
  • MAB-Mockup: (Robinson)
    • Useful tool to do lots of powerful QA querying
    • Note that there's a way to indicate the earliest commit in which this bug shows up (usually located via bibisect)

PENDING ITEM: Keeping track of bug statistics

  • [DONE] ACTION: Joel will come up with what statistics we want to track (just a couple for starters) and send to Rob
  • [DONE] ACTION: Rob will script up a first draft of stats report based on what Joel sends him
  • Rob knows what he wants to do here...wants to include charts (Joel)
    • There'd be a drop-down. Could show stats for any period over time
  • It would be great to try to merge this into the Bugzilla code and push upstream (Robinson)
  • If there's anything you're particularly interested in (stats-wise), ping Rob and ask him to add it (Joel)
    • Looking at the stats, looks like we need to focus some time there (almost 400 outstanding)
    • Thomas - Many (old) Writer bugs are hard to confirm/hard to know what they are talking about
      • If it's hard to understand repro steps, feel free to make a note and toss them into NEEDINFO state (Robinson)
  • ACTION: Joel and Joren will triage old Writer bugs; see if things need Need_Advice tag

PENDING ITEM: Updates to the BSA

  • ACTION: Remove EOL versions from the BSA and implement 'please update' message (Rob)
  • General agreement to include (Joel)
    • Currently supported (stable) builds
    • Latest RC of each release branch

PENDING ITEM: Tag Repro Needs in Whiteboard

  • [DONE] ACTION: Implement webpage displaying lists of NeedsXYZ bugs (Robinson)

[Punting to Nov 18 because we didn't have many people on the call at this point on Nov 4th]

PENDING ITEM: QA Contest T-shirts

  • [DONE] ACTION: Pick a printer and get the shirts printed (Robinson)
    • November 4 - Quote received from printer; printing now underway (Robinson)
  • T-shirts are done and sent!
  • Happy to see this done! (Joel/Robinson)
  • If you would like to purchase one, we have a few left (contact me for details)
  • If you're on the list to receive one, please send us an Action picture (e.g. you hard at work traiging bugs :-) wearing the shirt.
  • And thank you for your patience here... :-)

Long-term/Frozen Pending Items

These are long-term or frozen items (i.e. on ice until something else happens) that we don't want to forget about...

PENDING ITEM: What to do with FDO bugs filed against Extensions, Templates

  • ACTION: Joel will continue to monitor the situation

PENDING ITEM: Talk to CS Department/others at University

  • ACTION: Put up a message on the message board at his University and see who is interested (Joel)

PENDING ITEM: Hackfests

  • ACTION: USA involvement in hackfests -- (Keep on the agenda, discuss on QA list) (All)

New Action Items

All items proposed between meetings go here

NEW ITEM: Title (Author)


New Items (Proposed/Discussed at the Meeting)

NEW ITEM: Start Center and Sidebar (Stuart)

There are some big issues with the Start Center and Sidebar in 4.2

  • tdf#61914 - META: Tweak the new template manager to act as a start center [a11y]
  • tdf#65138 - [META] Sidebar feature related issues

Points:

  • Interest in having me (Robinson) bring up some points to ESC
  • We need to get keyboard navigation working properly under the new GTK UI widget designs.
  • tdf#70449 - StartCenter: it is not possible to easily navigate through recent used files with the keyboard
  • tdf#71628 - ACCESSIBILITY: new GTK+ UI start center keyboard navigation not acceptable [a11y]
    • ACTION: Stuart will break this out into multiple pieces
  • ACTION: Stuart will prepare talking points for Robinson before Thursday's ESC call

Announcements

End

  • Meeting adjourned at: 21:00

Topics

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