QA/Meetings/2013/December 02

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    Meeting of the QA Team

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    Date and Time (UTC) 2013-12-02 19:30 UTC
    G+ Hangout [ This Meeting]
    Chair Robinson Tryon
    Secretary Robinson Tryon
    Started 19:42
    Adjourned Robinson, Bjoern, Joren, Thomas, Stuart
    Participants 21:00
    Pad http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/qa
    Talkyoo Room Number 537138


    Prep

    Agenda + Minutes

    Minutes:

    Content from the meeting itself ("the minutes") will be displayed in blue boxes like this.

    Before we Start

    A few minutes before we officially start the call, we'll try to have a few people on hand to help assist newbies set up their teleconferencing gear, get things muted, and log on to all of our communication channels:

    Start

    • Meeting started at: 19:42
    • Participants: Robinson, Bjoern, Joren, Thomas, Stuart

    Notes:

    • Started a little late due to technical difficulties.

    The State of QA

    Including any Opening Discussion

    • Sophie and Cor are leading our BugHunting Session 4.2.0 on December 6-8.
    • Release plan workflow: Automation of updater?
    • T-shirts update:
      • Delivered to:
        • Passingham, van der Meulen, De Cuyper, Madero, Biondi, Lee
      • En route to:
        • Hackert, Mandal, Viehöver, Münch, Laszlo
      • \o/ (Bjoern)

    UNCONFIRMED Bugs

    UNCONFIRMED bug count:

    • November 18th: 1144
    • Today (2nd): 954
    • Difference: -190

    => Lots of good work this week.

    • Excellent work on UNCONFIRMED bugs!
    • We need mentors on deck in QA/IRC for the upcoming BugHunting Session this week

    Topics for ESC?

    Does anyone have any topics/concerns that I should bring to the Engineering Steering Committee (ESC)? (Robinson)

    Need_Advice Bugs

    Need_Advice bugs

    I'm going to bring up the following bugs:

    • Nothing big right now :-)
    • (Later in the meeting): Stuart is going to give me some of our oldest accessibility bugs to see if I can get some traction on them.

    Discussion

    Pending Items

    PENDING ITEM: QA Team working with Local Teams

    • [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will talk w/sophie later about best way to interact w/local teams
    • ACTION: (Sophie) will organize a meeting for RC1 with all the teams
      • Nov 18 - Pinged QA List re: Local Teams as well as possible 'QA Event' per Cor (Robinson)
      • Nov 29 - Sophie emailed out about an all-Teams meeting in prep for 4.2.0 release (around Dec 16-22).
    • Sophie is in the planning process for the Meeting -- looking forward to an update from her next time!
      • Who wants to represent QA? (Robinson can try to make it, Bjoern is trying to be there too, but someone else would be better)

    PENDING ITEM: Bugzilla Migration etc.

    • [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will bring blo, lob, tdf, libo to ESC and ask them for input
      • Nov 21 - ESC gave some suggestions, and left final pick up to us (I'm emailing out to the QA list)
      • Dec 1 - After some general discussion (and no consensus), voting on the abbreviation is now underway.

    Topics to review:

    • QA/Bugzilla/LibreOffice Bugzilla Proposal
    • Where is Dennis Roczek with automated changes on the wiki? (we're basically done; most things left are pulled-in via extension)
    • What's our abbreviation? (blo#1234 ?)

    Older:

    • ACTION: Get Tollef to activate voting on FDO (merged item)
    • ACTION: Get Tollef to add BOLD statement to each FDO mail sent out to not reply via mail (merged item)
    • ACTION: Get Tollef to clarify 'version' label in Bugzilla (merged item)
    • ACTION: Will track the filed bug and wait to hear updates (re: Bold statement on FDO mail)
    • [SUPERSEDED] ACTION: Continue discussion (long-term) of move to Locally-hosted Bugzilla
    • Please vote!
      • We'll end voting at the next QA Call (December 16th)
    • In holding pattern waiting to hear from Tollef/FDO Admins
    • ACTION: Robinson/Cloph will talk to Tollef about next steps in Bugzilla migration

    PENDING ITEM: Update the whiteboard/keywords page

    • ACTION: Joel will turn this into an EasyHack and work on it (slowly)
    • Some work done; more work to do

    PENDING ITEM: Bibisect Repositories

    • [DONE] ACTION: Combine existing bibisect repos into one (starting pre-fork) (Robinson)
    • IDEA: Add bibisect into regular Developer workflow
    • IDEA: Create graph/tool to show which builds contain a given commit
    • I merged repos (added existing repos as remotes and then used the script to combine) (Robinson)
      • Tag oldest/latest in the repo (Bjoern)
      • Figure out some way to make it easy for a separate user profile for the bibisect repo (Robinson)
      • Maybe out of tree?
      • I'll put this 'combined' repo up on a test server so that people can poke at it and give me feedback (Robinson)
      • ACTION: Make combined bibisect repo available for testing (Robinson)
    • Some ongoing concerns about best way to get builds out of tb's and into bibisect repos (Bjoern)
      • This might entail some QA members helping to keep the TDF daily tb's up and running
      • Most of the time when a tinderbox breaks, it's something trivial


    Regarding IDEA: Create graph/tool to show which builds contain a given commit:

    PENDING ITEM: GUI for Bibisect

    • ACTION: Punt on implementation until after we have bibisect repos up and running (All)

    [Ed. Moving this to Long-term/Frozen Items]

    PENDING ITEM: Feedback pages

    • ACTION: Sophie will create page in silverstripe

    References:

    • Sophie/Robinson - Mocked-up page in silverstripe; hit limits on what we can do via web GUI
    • Charles interested in adding this page to the overall Website redesign
    • Hope to have something functional (not necessarily pretty) up by the next QA Meeting (Robinson)
    • ACTION: Robinson will talk to cloph about getting page up (theme support?)

    PENDING ITEM: Most Annoying Bug List

    • ACTION: Joel will propose stricter guidelines for what qualifies as a MAB

    References:

    • Punt

    PENDING ITEM: Updates to the BSA

    • ACTION: Ask Joel to add 4.3.0.0.alpha0+ Master (Robinson)
    • ACTION: Ask Rob to expand Windows (All) --> Windows 2k & XP, Windows 7 and Windows 8+ (Stuart)
    • Punt on BSA-related updates until we can hear from Rob

    PENDING ITEM: Writer Bugs

    • [DONE] ACTION: Joel and Joren will triage old Writer bugs; see if things need Need_Advice tag

    (There are a ton of Writer bugs in UNCONFIRMED)

    • Triaged some Writer bugs (Joren)
    • Outstanding bugs reduced to:
      • 3.3: 3
      • 3.4: 3
      • 3.5: 25
    • Categories really help us to break down the list of bugs into manageable pieces (Robinson)

    PENDING ITEM: LibreOffice Bugzilla Twitter Account

    • [DONE] ACTION: - Robinson will talk to Zeki, get creds for the QA Team and make it a read-only feed
      • Nov 18 - Emailed Zeki
      • Nov 19 - Got creds; Joren is now happily tweeting...things.
    • Joren is now taking an active role with this Twitter account.
    • It's all good (Joren)
      • Had some good conversations with users -- already helped +/- 7 people.
        • Grateful users sometimes leave donations :-)
      • Let us know if you need help/if Twitter is taking a lot of time (Robinson)

    PENDING ITEM: QA Input into website redesign

    • ACTION: Joel will email to QA List about message we'd like to convey to Marketing/Website for community involvement
    • ACTION: I'll check-in with Joel (Robinson)

    PENDING ITEM: Start Center and Sidebar Concerns

    • [DONE] ACTION: Stuart will break this out into multiple pieces
    • [DONE] ACTION: Stuart will prepare talking points for Robinson before Thursday's ESC call
      • Nov 20 - Stuart provides docs (thanks!)
      • Nov 21 - ESC acknowledges dearth of a11y work; Assigns Action Items to help improve the situation
      • Nov 28 - Stuart, where are we with ESC's request to "file a11y concerns as individual bugs"? (Perhaps I can bring a specific list to the next ESC? (kind of like NeedAdvice)
    • How has the process been working? (Robinson)
    • I've split out some problems into multiple bugs (Stuart)
      • Still have a disconnect between the widget/UI layout and the VCL
      • Across all accessibility bridges, we need more people looking at them
    • ACTION: If you try to use LibreOffice without a mouse (and using a screen reader), how is the experience? (Everyone)
    • Meta bugs for tracking substantive Accessibility issues across the three OS families.
    • Notes on Windows:
      • Download and install NVDA (a downloadable Python-based opensource screen reader)
      • The MS-provided UI automation is not compatible with what we've done with OOo or LO in the past, so we're rolling our own brdige UAA -> IAccessible2

    Long-term/Frozen Pending Items

    These are long-term or frozen items (i.e. on ice until something else happens) that we don't want to forget about...

    PENDING ITEM: What to do with FDO bugs filed against Extensions, Templates

    • ACTION: Joel will continue to monitor the situation

    PENDING ITEM: Talk to CS Department/others at University

    • ACTION: Put up a message on the message board at his University and see who is interested (Joel)

    PENDING ITEM: Hackfests

    • ACTION: USA involvement in hackfests -- (Keep on the agenda, discuss on QA list) (All)

    New Action Items

    All items proposed between meetings go here

    NEW ITEM: Fix Bugzilla attachment MIME-type problems (Robinson)

    Relevant: QA/Bugzilla/Attachments

    • Due to a number of historical/technical reasons, we have hundreds of attachments on the wiki with the wrong MIME type
    • We want to fix these attachments programmatically
      • Complete fix will require (at minimum) a Bugzilla upgrade
      • Might need to have a bot to do daily cleanup

    Current work:

    • Nov 21 - Joren poking at scripts
    • Rob is also on board for some help here
    • Rob is on board to help, but no time this week (Joren)
    • Moggi suggested that we can use Python like the get-bugzilla-attachments-by-mimetype.py script
      • Problems with connection to Bugzilla.
      • Try to use Perl right now, like BSA does :-)
    • ACTION: Finish our MIME-type-fixing script! (Rob/Joren tag-team)

    NEW ITEM: Title (Author)

    New Items (Proposed/Discussed at the Meeting)

    NEW ITEM: Dealing with big attachments for Bugzilla (Bjoern)

    • ownCloud doesn't scale -- don't want to create new account for each new person
    • In the past, we were uploading some files to the wiki (Robinson)
      • At least you can get your own account w/o bugging the sysadmins (Bjoern)
    • Florian suggested a git repository
    • Let's use the wiki for now, and see what we can do for the future (Robinson)
      • ACTION: Move existing large attachments to the wiki and update docs on the wiki (Robinson)
      • wiki is 25MB limit

    NEW ITEM: Introduction video to LibreOffice QA (Robinson/Joren)

    • Would be useful to have an intro video
    • Perhaps a screencast
    • ACTION: Mock something up/have something to show for next QA Meeting (Robinson, Joren)

    Announcements

    End

    • Meeting adjourned at: 21:00

    Topics

    (Add topics below and reference them as #Example Topic in the Agenda/Minutes above)

    Example Topic

    BSA Available Versions

    The current list of available versions ("Version the bug appeared:") in the BSA is this:

    • 4.2.0.0.alpha1
    • 4.2.0.0.alpha0+ Master
    • 4.1.3.2 release
    • 4.1.3.1 rc
    • 4.1.2.3 release
    • 4.1.2.2 rc
    • 4.1.2.1 rc
    • 4.1.1.2 release
    • 4.1.1.1 rc
    • 4.1.0.4 release
    • 4.1.0.3 rc
    • 4.1.0.2 rc
    • 4.1.0.1 rc
    • 4.1.0.0.beta2
    • 4.1.0.0.beta1
    • 4.1.0.0.alpha1
    • 4.1.0.0.alpha0+ Master
    • 4.0.6.2 release
    • 4.0.6.1 rc
    • 4.0.5.2 release
    • 4.0.5.1 rc
    • 4.0.4.2 release
    • 4.0.4.1 rc
    • 4.0.3.3 release
    • 4.0.2.2 release
    • 4.0.1.2 release
    • 4.0.0.3 release
    • 3.6.7.2 release
    • 3.6.6.2 release
    • 3.6.5.2 release
    • 3.6.4.3 release
    • 3.6.3.2 release
    • 3.6.2.2 release
    • 3.6.1.2 release
    • 3.6.0.4 release
    • 3.5 all versions
    • 3.4 all versions
    • 3.3 all versions
    • Inherited From OOo
    • unspecified

    Per our discussions, the list should be this:

    • 4.2.0.0.alpha1
    • Master [pointing at 4.2.0.0.alpha0+ Master]
    • 4.1.3.2 release
    • 4.1.2.3 release
    • 4.1.1.2 release
    • 4.1.0.4 release
    • 4.0.6.2 release
    • 4.0.5.2 release
    • 4.0.4.2 release
    • 4.0.3.3 release
    • 4.0.2.2 release
    • 4.0.1.2 release
    • 4.0.0.3 release
    • Older versions

    The near future:

    By November 21st (in 2 days) the 4.0 release branch will be EOL and 4.2 beta1 will be out, at which point the list should be:

    • Master [pointing at 4.3.0.0.alpha0+ Master]
    • 4.2.0.0.beta1
    • 4.1.3.2 release
    • 4.1.2.3 release
    • 4.1.1.2 release
    • 4.1.0.4 release
    • Older versions

    Implementation Notes

    Cloph mentioned that we can pull some information from the download server via rsync. We could also get some info out via HTTP:

    We already have a full list of available versions in Bugzilla (which the BSA already pulls from Bugzilla), so that can give us a few things:

    Master branch

    • If we filter by versions that match 'master' and then sort alphabetically, we can just pick the top one

    "Older versions"

    • This one is static (no updates required)

    Stable versions are a bit more complicated

    • Take the list of stable releases (e.g. 4.0.6, 4.1.3) and chop off the last digit to just keep MAJOR.minor version information re: current release branches: (4.0, 4.1)
    • Include those versions matching one of the current release branches AND that include the world 'release'.

    Latest alpha/beta/rc releases are most complicated

    • For every unique X.y in the Bugzilla version list, remove all but the last one that matches (so from our list above we have this:)
      • 4.2.0.0.alpha1
      • 4.1.3.2 release
      • 4.0.6.2 release
      • 3.6.7.2 release
      • 3.5 all versions
      • 3.4 all versions
      • 3.3 all versions
    • Remove all X.y < the smallest current release branch (per our list above, the smallest release branch = 4.0). That leaves:
      • 4.2.0.0.alpha1
      • 4.1.3.2 release
      • 4.0.6.2 release
    • Remove anything matching "[Mm]aster" or "release"
      • 4.2.0.0.alpha1

    I think those rules should give us a proper list...we should check a month or so later and confirm.

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