QA/Meetings/2013/December 02

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Meeting of the QA Team

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Date and Time (UTC) 2013-12-02 19:30 UTC
G+ Hangout [ This Meeting]
Chair Robinson Tryon
Secretary Robinson Tryon
Started 19:42
Adjourned Robinson, Bjoern, Joren, Thomas, Stuart
Participants 21:00
Talkyoo Room Number 537138


Agenda + Minutes


Content from the meeting itself ("the minutes") will be displayed in blue boxes like this.

Before we Start

A few minutes before we officially start the call, we'll try to have a few people on hand to help assist newbies set up their teleconferencing gear, get things muted, and log on to all of our communication channels:


  • Meeting started at: 19:42
  • Participants: Robinson, Bjoern, Joren, Thomas, Stuart


  • Started a little late due to technical difficulties.

The State of QA

Including any Opening Discussion

  • Sophie and Cor are leading our BugHunting Session 4.2.0 on December 6-8.
  • Release plan workflow: Automation of updater?
  • T-shirts update:
    • Delivered to:
      • Passingham, van der Meulen, De Cuyper, Madero, Biondi, Lee
    • En route to:
      • Hackert, Mandal, Viehöver, Münch, Laszlo
    • \o/ (Bjoern)


UNCONFIRMED bug count:

  • November 18th: 1144
  • Today (2nd): 954
  • Difference: -190

=> Lots of good work this week.

  • Excellent work on UNCONFIRMED bugs!
  • We need mentors on deck in QA/IRC for the upcoming BugHunting Session this week

Topics for ESC?

Does anyone have any topics/concerns that I should bring to the Engineering Steering Committee (ESC)? (Robinson)

Need_Advice Bugs

Need_Advice bugs

I'm going to bring up the following bugs:

  • Nothing big right now :-)
  • (Later in the meeting): Stuart is going to give me some of our oldest accessibility bugs to see if I can get some traction on them.


Pending Items

PENDING ITEM: QA Team working with Local Teams

  • [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will talk w/sophie later about best way to interact w/local teams
  • ACTION: (Sophie) will organize a meeting for RC1 with all the teams
    • Nov 18 - Pinged QA List re: Local Teams as well as possible 'QA Event' per Cor (Robinson)
    • Nov 29 - Sophie emailed out about an all-Teams meeting in prep for 4.2.0 release (around Dec 16-22).
  • Sophie is in the planning process for the Meeting -- looking forward to an update from her next time!
    • Who wants to represent QA? (Robinson can try to make it, Bjoern is trying to be there too, but someone else would be better)

PENDING ITEM: Bugzilla Migration etc.

  • [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will bring blo, lob, tdf, libo to ESC and ask them for input
    • Nov 21 - ESC gave some suggestions, and left final pick up to us (I'm emailing out to the QA list)
    • Dec 1 - After some general discussion (and no consensus), voting on the abbreviation is now underway.

Topics to review:

  • QA/Bugzilla/LibreOffice Bugzilla Proposal
  • Where is Dennis Roczek with automated changes on the wiki? (we're basically done; most things left are pulled-in via extension)
  • What's our abbreviation? (blo#1234 ?)


  • ACTION: Get Tollef to activate voting on FDO (merged item)
  • ACTION: Get Tollef to add BOLD statement to each FDO mail sent out to not reply via mail (merged item)
  • ACTION: Get Tollef to clarify 'version' label in Bugzilla (merged item)
  • ACTION: Will track the filed bug and wait to hear updates (re: Bold statement on FDO mail)
  • [SUPERSEDED] ACTION: Continue discussion (long-term) of move to Locally-hosted Bugzilla
  • Please vote!
    • We'll end voting at the next QA Call (December 16th)
  • In holding pattern waiting to hear from Tollef/FDO Admins
  • ACTION: Robinson/Cloph will talk to Tollef about next steps in Bugzilla migration

PENDING ITEM: Update the whiteboard/keywords page

  • ACTION: Joel will turn this into an EasyHack and work on it (slowly)
  • Some work done; more work to do

PENDING ITEM: Bibisect Repositories

  • [DONE] ACTION: Combine existing bibisect repos into one (starting pre-fork) (Robinson)
  • IDEA: Add bibisect into regular Developer workflow
  • IDEA: Create graph/tool to show which builds contain a given commit
  • I merged repos (added existing repos as remotes and then used the script to combine) (Robinson)
    • Tag oldest/latest in the repo (Bjoern)
    • Figure out some way to make it easy for a separate user profile for the bibisect repo (Robinson)
    • Maybe out of tree?
    • I'll put this 'combined' repo up on a test server so that people can poke at it and give me feedback (Robinson)
    • ACTION: Make combined bibisect repo available for testing (Robinson)
  • Some ongoing concerns about best way to get builds out of tb's and into bibisect repos (Bjoern)
    • This might entail some QA members helping to keep the TDF daily tb's up and running
    • Most of the time when a tinderbox breaks, it's something trivial

Regarding IDEA: Create graph/tool to show which builds contain a given commit:

PENDING ITEM: GUI for Bibisect

  • ACTION: Punt on implementation until after we have bibisect repos up and running (All)

[Ed. Moving this to Long-term/Frozen Items]

PENDING ITEM: Feedback pages

  • ACTION: Sophie will create page in silverstripe


  • Sophie/Robinson - Mocked-up page in silverstripe; hit limits on what we can do via web GUI
  • Charles interested in adding this page to the overall Website redesign
  • Hope to have something functional (not necessarily pretty) up by the next QA Meeting (Robinson)
  • ACTION: Robinson will talk to cloph about getting page up (theme support?)

PENDING ITEM: Most Annoying Bug List

  • ACTION: Joel will propose stricter guidelines for what qualifies as a MAB


  • Punt

PENDING ITEM: Updates to the BSA

  • ACTION: Ask Joel to add Master (Robinson)
  • ACTION: Ask Rob to expand Windows (All) --> Windows 2k & XP, Windows 7 and Windows 8+ (Stuart)
  • Punt on BSA-related updates until we can hear from Rob


  • [DONE] ACTION: Joel and Joren will triage old Writer bugs; see if things need Need_Advice tag

(There are a ton of Writer bugs in UNCONFIRMED)

  • Triaged some Writer bugs (Joren)
  • Outstanding bugs reduced to:
    • 3.3: 3
    • 3.4: 3
    • 3.5: 25
  • Categories really help us to break down the list of bugs into manageable pieces (Robinson)

PENDING ITEM: LibreOffice Bugzilla Twitter Account

  • [DONE] ACTION: - Robinson will talk to Zeki, get creds for the QA Team and make it a read-only feed
    • Nov 18 - Emailed Zeki
    • Nov 19 - Got creds; Joren is now happily tweeting...things.
  • Joren is now taking an active role with this Twitter account.
  • It's all good (Joren)
    • Had some good conversations with users -- already helped +/- 7 people.
      • Grateful users sometimes leave donations :-)
    • Let us know if you need help/if Twitter is taking a lot of time (Robinson)

PENDING ITEM: QA Input into website redesign

  • ACTION: Joel will email to QA List about message we'd like to convey to Marketing/Website for community involvement
  • ACTION: I'll check-in with Joel (Robinson)

PENDING ITEM: Start Center and Sidebar Concerns

  • [DONE] ACTION: Stuart will break this out into multiple pieces
  • [DONE] ACTION: Stuart will prepare talking points for Robinson before Thursday's ESC call
    • Nov 20 - Stuart provides docs (thanks!)
    • Nov 21 - ESC acknowledges dearth of a11y work; Assigns Action Items to help improve the situation
    • Nov 28 - Stuart, where are we with ESC's request to "file a11y concerns as individual bugs"? (Perhaps I can bring a specific list to the next ESC? (kind of like NeedAdvice)
  • How has the process been working? (Robinson)
  • I've split out some problems into multiple bugs (Stuart)
    • Still have a disconnect between the widget/UI layout and the VCL
    • Across all accessibility bridges, we need more people looking at them
  • ACTION: If you try to use LibreOffice without a mouse (and using a screen reader), how is the experience? (Everyone)
  • Meta bugs for tracking substantive Accessibility issues across the three OS families.
  • Notes on Windows:
    • Download and install NVDA (a downloadable Python-based opensource screen reader)
    • The MS-provided UI automation is not compatible with what we've done with OOo or LO in the past, so we're rolling our own brdige UAA -> IAccessible2

Long-term/Frozen Pending Items

These are long-term or frozen items (i.e. on ice until something else happens) that we don't want to forget about...

PENDING ITEM: What to do with FDO bugs filed against Extensions, Templates

  • ACTION: Joel will continue to monitor the situation

PENDING ITEM: Talk to CS Department/others at University

  • ACTION: Put up a message on the message board at his University and see who is interested (Joel)


  • ACTION: USA involvement in hackfests -- (Keep on the agenda, discuss on QA list) (All)

New Action Items

All items proposed between meetings go here

NEW ITEM: Fix Bugzilla attachment MIME-type problems (Robinson)

Relevant: QA/Bugzilla/Attachments

  • Due to a number of historical/technical reasons, we have hundreds of attachments on the wiki with the wrong MIME type
  • We want to fix these attachments programmatically
    • Complete fix will require (at minimum) a Bugzilla upgrade
    • Might need to have a bot to do daily cleanup

Current work:

  • Nov 21 - Joren poking at scripts
  • Rob is also on board for some help here
  • Rob is on board to help, but no time this week (Joren)
  • Moggi suggested that we can use Python like the script
    • Problems with connection to Bugzilla.
    • Try to use Perl right now, like BSA does :-)
  • ACTION: Finish our MIME-type-fixing script! (Rob/Joren tag-team)

NEW ITEM: Title (Author)

New Items (Proposed/Discussed at the Meeting)

NEW ITEM: Dealing with big attachments for Bugzilla (Bjoern)

  • ownCloud doesn't scale -- don't want to create new account for each new person
  • In the past, we were uploading some files to the wiki (Robinson)
    • At least you can get your own account w/o bugging the sysadmins (Bjoern)
  • Florian suggested a git repository
  • Let's use the wiki for now, and see what we can do for the future (Robinson)
    • ACTION: Move existing large attachments to the wiki and update docs on the wiki (Robinson)
    • wiki is 25MB limit

NEW ITEM: Introduction video to LibreOffice QA (Robinson/Joren)

  • Would be useful to have an intro video
  • Perhaps a screencast
  • ACTION: Mock something up/have something to show for next QA Meeting (Robinson, Joren)



  • Meeting adjourned at: 21:00


(Add topics below and reference them as #Example Topic in the Agenda/Minutes above)

Example Topic

BSA Available Versions

The current list of available versions ("Version the bug appeared:") in the BSA is this:

  • Master
  • release
  • rc
  • release
  • rc
  • rc
  • release
  • rc
  • release
  • rc
  • rc
  • rc
  • Master
  • release
  • rc
  • release
  • rc
  • release
  • rc
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • 3.5 all versions
  • 3.4 all versions
  • 3.3 all versions
  • Inherited From OOo
  • unspecified

Per our discussions, the list should be this:

  • Master [pointing at Master]
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • Older versions

The near future:

By November 21st (in 2 days) the 4.0 release branch will be EOL and 4.2 beta1 will be out, at which point the list should be:

  • Master [pointing at Master]
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • release
  • Older versions

Implementation Notes

Cloph mentioned that we can pull some information from the download server via rsync. We could also get some info out via HTTP:

We already have a full list of available versions in Bugzilla (which the BSA already pulls from Bugzilla), so that can give us a few things:

Master branch

  • If we filter by versions that match 'master' and then sort alphabetically, we can just pick the top one

"Older versions"

  • This one is static (no updates required)

Stable versions are a bit more complicated

  • Take the list of stable releases (e.g. 4.0.6, 4.1.3) and chop off the last digit to just keep MAJOR.minor version information re: current release branches: (4.0, 4.1)
  • Include those versions matching one of the current release branches AND that include the world 'release'.

Latest alpha/beta/rc releases are most complicated

  • For every unique X.y in the Bugzilla version list, remove all but the last one that matches (so from our list above we have this:)
    • release
    • release
    • release
    • 3.5 all versions
    • 3.4 all versions
    • 3.3 all versions
  • Remove all X.y < the smallest current release branch (per our list above, the smallest release branch = 4.0). That leaves:
    • release
    • release
  • Remove anything matching "[Mm]aster" or "release"

I think those rules should give us a proper list...we should check a month or so later and confirm.