QA/Meetings/2013/April 19

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    Meeting of the QA Team

    previous - next

    Date and Time (UTC) 2013-04-19 13:00 UTC
    Chair Joel Madero (Bjoern after Joel left)
    Secretary Robinson Tryon
    Started 13:02
    Adjourned 14:50
    Participants Florian R., Joel, Robinson, Bjoern, Joren, SteveBell
    Pad http://beta.etherpad.org/p/partyhat

    Prep

    • April 11 - Joel is looking to see if a new default time will work better for us

    Agenda + Minutes

    Minutes:

    Content from the meeting itself ("the minutes") will be displayed in blue boxes like this.

    Start

    • Meeting started at: 13:02
    • Participants: Florian R., Joel, Robinson, Bjoern, Joren, SteveBell


    • Bjoern, Joren, and SteveBell joined late
    • Joel had to leave a bit early

    Pending Action Items

    PENDING ITEM: Attachments on FDO (Auto default)

    • [DONE] ACTION: Bjoern will follow-up with Tollef re: FDO management
    • DONE, per Joel

    PENDING ITEM: NEEDINFO Stagnant Bugs

    • [DONE] ACTION: Joel will investigate email option and hopefully move forward with closing bugs soon
      • PUNTed from last week
    • Have the email address <qa-admin@libreoffice.org>
    • Joel and Bjoern have access
    • ACTION: Joel will do 1st test of 50 bugs this week

    PENDING ITEM: Documentation for Localized French BSA

    • [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will talk with Rob and Sophie about the draft language for administration of localized BSAs, and add new Action Items as necessary.
      • April 12 - Robinson consulted w/Rob and added more documentation and a table describing who is responsible for each BSA at QA/BSA/Localization.
      • Any additional docs/policy we need to create?
    • Need to find a 2nd person for each localized BSA to ensure prompt response to questions
    • ACTION: Robinson will add Charles Schultz as 2nd contact for FR BSA
    • ACTION: Joel will talk to Rob and will look for a 2nd developer for BSA code

    PENDING ITEM: Contest Swag

    • [DONE] ACTION: Robinson and Joel will make a shopping list (with numbers of items and prices) that can be passed along to the BoD.
    • Robinson got prices
    • We'll need another week (facing problems of small-scale setup costs)
    • Backup plan: Just get T-Shirts for all prizes
    • ACTION: Joel will try to find a way to have a variety of prizes; will let the Board know if we go with our Backup plan.

    PENDING ITEM: What to do with FDO bugs filed against Extensions, Templates

    • [DONE] ACTION: Keep discussing on lists.
    • Rainer is set as Default QA Contact for this Component
    • Bjoern: Mark as NEEDINFO and note: "Did you try to contact the developer of this extension?"
    • Joel: Use the 'Contact' link on the Extension site (will contact the admins of the site; if that produces too much email, they can suggest a new contact mechanism)
    • ACTION: Joel will try to get conversation started again
    • ACTION: Joel will (try to) contact the maintainer of the LO Extension Site again

    PENDING ITEM: Certified QA Team

    • [DONE] ACTION: Joel will contact web team about this
    • PUNTed from last week
    • April 13 - Is this the same discussion as the "core team" and what we want to put on http://qa.libreoffice.org/team ?
    • Creating QA/Website in Silverstripe
    • April 14 - Florian R. is chomping at the bit to get started. What's holding us up?
    • Should be 'Core QA Website' or 'Core QA Team'
    • Florian R. - Website is working; holding off on publicizing the URL until it's more polished
    • Need photos for remaining Core QA Team members (don't feel pressured to submit one, if you don't want to)
    • Need bios (if people like)
    • ACTION: Joren will create macOS-specific pages
    • ACTION: Joel will create Linux-specific pages
    • ACTION: Florian R. will create Windows-specific pages
    • ACTION: Joel will ping marketing about new site

    PENDING ITEM: Should we activate voting on FDO?

    • [DONE] ACTION: Bjoern will ask Tollef if we can change the text on the voting feature to something like "This bug affects me"
    • [DONE] ACTION: Bjoern/Petr: Will take this proposal to the Dev call tomorrow (April 11)
    • Bjoern - Tollef said we can activate the feature, it can be renamed, but not sure if the emails can be suppressed
    • Bjoern - If we can't suppress emails, try testing?
    • We will test the feature without publicizing it being active in order to see if emails are sent every vote
    • ACTION: Bjoern will keep shepherding the implementation of this feature

    PENDING ITEM: Provide clearer help in the absence of a formal hierarchy [was "Formal Structure"]

    • [DONE] ACTION: Bjoern will create a proposal for a mailing list or email contact where people can contact the BoD or ESC and ask for help using TDF infrastructure or funds
      • (e.g. "Who can open a Talkyoo room for me to have a Design meeting?" or "How can I get $100 to do X?")
    • Bjoern - Approached BoD.
    • If someone doesn't get a response from info@tdf, try approaching someone in power/on the board directly.
      • info@tdf is still the primary contact
    • For QA-related questions, we have the contact form: https://qa.libreoffice.org/contact/
    • Joel - If we grow, we might need to revisit this plan
    • AGREED: Good enough structure for QA questions in place right now.

    PENDING ITEM: Add BOLD statement to each FDO mail sent out to not reply via mail

    • [DONE] ACTION: Bjoern will ping Tollef and ask if emails can include the line: "If you reply to this bug by email, please do not quote this entire email in your reply"
    • Tollef said he will do this
    • Bjoern - We don't want to say "Don't respond via email," we just want to discourage quoting of the content of the original email.
    • ACTION: Bjoern will keep working on this feature

    PENDING ITEM: Update the whiteboard/keywords page

    • ACTION: Joel will update the whiteboard/keywords page
    • Joel - No change

    PENDING ITEM: How should the BugReport and Bug Documentation wiki pages be organized?

    • ACTION: Robinson will organize a separate call when Rainer, Rob, and other interested parties can figure out a plan here.
      • April 16 - Based on conversations on the QA list, this might expand into a broader discussion of how to simplify and improve QA docs in general; Starting with these bugtracker-related docs might be a good place to start.
    • Robinson - Still working on this

    PENDING ITEM: Establish 'End of Life' for LibreOffice releases

    • Good discussion ongoing on the mailing list; Likely to reach consensus soon
    • [DONE] ACTION: Follow-up at next QA Meeting to make sure that we've resolved this issue
      • April 13 - Updates by Petr look good; Topic was discussed in ESC meeting and appeared to get agreement
      • Just need to display the EOL date for each minor release on the ReleasePlan page (and individual release pages).
      • April 15 - Robinson updated ReleasePlan and sub-pages per Petr's request. We're basically done here.
    • ESC was supportive of 1 month after last point release
    • Website updated

    PENDING ITEM: Use an online collaborative editor for minutes so that they can be viewed as the call progresses

    • [DONE] ACTION: Robinson will investigate options and will try to use such an editor for taking minutes at the next meeting
      • April 13 - Robinson, Joel, and Joren test Etherpad Lite with much success.
        • Decently responsive
        • Includes a chat window (but we should just use IRC for now)
        • No method of making the document read-only, but let's assume everyone can act like an adult for now :-)
      • Robinson: We can use this pad as a trial run on April 19th: http://beta.etherpad.org/p/partyhat
        • If we don't hate the result, Robinson will ask Floeff to host the server part somewhere on TDF infrastructure.
    • People like the pad
    • Can follow-along with the meeting
    • ACTION: Joel will update the topic in the IRC channel for the next meeting to say "In meeting -- join us in Pad XXX" (etc..)
    • ACTION: Robinson will ask Floeff to install Etherpad on a TDF server somewhere.

    PENDING ITEM: SI-GUI

    • ACTION: Florian R. -- Update Wikipage
    • Punt due to time

    PENDING ITEM: Windows QA guys

    • [DONE] ACTION: Florian R. will lead discussion on how to encourage Windows QA guys to join our meetings
    • Basic idea was to get more Windows users into the call
    • ACTION: Joel will go to the user's list and recruit some more Windows users for our team (esp. Win8 users)

    PENDING ITEM: Q&A for QA

    • ACTION: Florian R. will lead discussion on proposed call section: Q&A for new triagers
    • Punt

    New Action Items

    NEW ITEM: Have a calendar on the wiki in GMT (Robinson)

    • We have a display of the calendar on the wiki in Berlin time - EventsCalendar
      • April 13 - Pinged Marc Pare about changing display time to GMT
        • Page is now in GMT, but events aren't appearing at the right times yet..
      • April 14 - Calendar now displaying in GMT and QA Meetings appearing at the right time (13:00 UTC)
      • Robinson considers this item DONE.
    • Big thanks to Marc Pare for helping to get this done

    NEW ITEM: What to do with releases after EOL (Robinson, Joel)

    • After a release is EOL, there are several things that will change regarding QA.
      • When do we de-list the release versions from the bugtracker?
        • Robinson: I suggest we de-list 6 months after EOL. After that, we tell people filing bugs against the version to put the version # in the summary ("v3.5.6 - Old bug here..")
      • What do we tell people who want tech support? (Do we tell them to upgrade or to go find paid tech support?)
    • Joel would like to hear input from Petr, Bjoern, and Rainer
    • Bjoern - Only reason to do anything in a branch after EOL would be a security issue or a major regression in the last point release
    • AGREED: For users inquiring about tech support after the EOL date of a release, we politely indicate that the release is EOL and ask them to upgrade to a new version (or go talk to their vendor/distro/paid tech support)
    • AGREED: We de-list versions in Bugzilla 6 months after the release has been EOLed.
    • ACTION: Robinson will ping the QA list and specifically ask if Petr or Rainer have comments.

    NEW ITEM: What to do about dupes when we can't find dupe # (Joel)

    • New whiteboard status? (suspect_dupe)?
    • Just mark as NEW, let dupes remain in system and ignore it
    • Just comment saying "probably a dupe"?
    • Joel - Could help us to find and collapse duplicate bugs
    • AGREED: Feel free to mark 'NEW', but add a comment at the same time "Marking as NEW because I'm quite sure that this is a dupe" (or etc...)

    NEW ITEM: OS Specific Whiteboard Status (Joel)

    • If there is an OS specific bug, should we have new whiteboard stuats "OS-NAME" such as "OS-FEDORA" or "OS-W8"
    • Benefit in queries, Windows (all) not as useful sometimes
    • Relatively rare for a bug like this but they do exist
    • Bjoern - If a bug is Ubuntu-only, he usually takes it (and marks it as RESOLVED as NOTOURBUG)
    • It would be helpful to be able to create lists of Win8 or WinXP bugs so that they could be
    • Bjoern - If there are 10 bugs or more, perhaps add a whiteboard status.
    • ACTION: Joel will update the whiteboard page with new status for Win8

    NEW ITEM: How to deal with Unconfirmed bugs that QA team cannot triage (Joel)

    • There are some bugs that for different reasons the small QA team cannot do (either we don't have the expertise, the exact setup, etc...)
    • Options include - emailing dev list (could be a long wait), cc'ing a dev (also might be a long wait), new whiteboard status for experienced devs to query (another whiteboard status....)
    • This came from bugs such as the set of webdav bugs that are just sitting UNCONFIRMED
    • Without a solution a serious bug might just sit unconfirmed forever
    • Joel - Sometimes you need specific software or setup (e.g. a special printer, Visio software, etc..) and can't effectively work on the bug without it
    • ACTION: Joel will add a whiteboard status 'NEED EXPERT ADVICE'
    • ACTION: Bjoern will talk about interop licenses
    • ----- Discussion moved to the potential migration to a locally-hosted installation of Bugzilla:
    • Bjoern - It's not that having a non-FDO Bugzilla is bad, it's that the migration would be very painful, and would need to be synced with releases (Around X.X.3, when bug traffic is as quiet as possible)
    • Joel - Between manpower/money, it's possibly 1 - 1.5 years away
    • ACTION: Robinson will start to investigate what steps would need to happen to migrate each integrated piece for Bugzilla

    NEW ITEM: Get French BSA Operational (Robinson)

    • April 18 - Per Floeff, email problems that were plaguing us should be solved.
    • Key people: Rob, Sophie
    • What's the next step?
    • Per notes in #PENDING ITEM: Documentation for Localized French BSA, we can ping Charles and French QA Team to get the ball rolling here
    • Note: See if we can steal some of Rob's time to get any final tech pieces working
    • ACTION: Joel will coordinate next steps of getting FR BSA running

    New Action Items (Proposed at the Meeting)

    NEW ITEM: Regressions within a release (Bjoern)

    • Can we address regressions within a minor release (e.g. in the 3.6.x series) and determine if they predate the X.X.0 release?)
    • This would be good for marketing "We only introduced 1 regression in this release series"
    • Method: Go through the list of Regressions with the version marked X.X.1 - X.X.6 (etc..), and bibisect and/or try to repro with the X.X.0 release
    • ACTION: Robinson will talk w/Joel about a game plan to tackle these regressions

    Addendum:

    Announcements

    • Bjoern might not be able to make the meeting, but will try

    End

    • Meeting adjourned at: 14:50 (long meeting!)

    Topics

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