QA/Meetings/2014/May 05

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    Meeting of the QA Team

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    Date and Time (UTC) 2014-05-05 18:30 UTC
    G+ Hangout http://bit [dot] ly/LibO_QA_call_hangout
    Chair Robinson Tryon
    Secretary Robinson Tryon





    Stuart, Joel, Robinson, Joren, Jay P, Florian R.

    Talkyoo Room Number 537138


    Agenda + Minutes


    Content from the meeting itself ("the minutes") will be displayed in blue boxes like this.

    Before we Start

    A few minutes before we officially start the call, we'll try to have a few people on hand to help assist newbies set up their teleconferencing gear, get things muted, and log on to all of our communication channels:

    Q: Do people want a voice call or just IRC?

    • Hop on to #libreoffice-qa, and we'll chat just before the start of the meeting


    Put start time and attendees list in the table

    IRC Minutes

    (Talkyoo meeting today)

    The State of QA

    Including any Opening Discussion

    • US
      • Hackfests update --> See PENDING ITEM
      • US Merch store updates?
    • Impress Remote:
      • Bluetooth adapters? -- all set?
    • Bugzilla migration
      • Updates...
      • Re: need to reset passwords
        • Email notification ahead of migration
        • Tweak the change-password page and the front page to indicate that people will need to reset their passwords
        • Create an 'About our new Bugzilla' video as a part of our 'Intro to QA' series
    • [SUPERSEDED] ACTION: Order bluetooth adapter for Joren (Robinson)
    • Bugzilla:
      • SUGGESTION: Use to host Bugzilla
      • We can have both LibreOffice and some of the Document Liberation Project libraries all exist as top-level products in the bugtracker
    • QUESTION: Should we refocus ourselves as the TDF QA Team (to cover LibreOffice, DLP, etc.. ?)
    • No update re: Merch store
    • ACTION: Order bluetooth adapters for Joren, Joel, Florian R. (Robinson -> Floeff)
    • ACTION: Organize time to stress-test new Bugzilla VM (Joel)
    • ACTION: Make sure to supress outgoing email during our testing of the test Bugzilla (Robinson)
    • ACTION: Perhaps add Simple HTTP Auth (htaccess) control restricting access to (Robinson/Norbert)
    • ACTION: Resolve url for hosting our Bugzilla instance (Joel)
      • Deal with acronym if using url (tdf# ?)
    • ACTION: Joel will try to reschedule our May 19th call to see if there's a better time for us

    weekly status



    UNCONFIRMED bug count:

    • April 21: 1137
    • Today: 1086
    • Difference: -51
    • Good work! Let's get under 1000!
    • Let's make our summer goal to get under 500 UNCONFIRMED bugs (Joel)
    • ACTION: Come up with strategies (bloggers? other marketing?) to make this possible (Joel)
    • Potential to get French QA Team involvement?

    Regression watch (Bjoern)

    * Regression query
    • Not sure of usefulness of this query? (Joel)
    • Perhaps Bjoern needs to explain...

    Topics for ESC?

    Does anyone have any topics/concerns that I should bring to the Engineering Steering Committee (ESC)? (Robinson)

    • I've been traveling, so remind me of any issues for the next one...
    • NeedAdvice bugs
      • Would be nice if those could be tackled in chronological order (Joel)

    Need_Advice Bugs

    NeedAdvice bugs

    • The oldest ones (see above!)

    Pending Items

    ITEMS from Joel

    • Thanks to Jay for excellent work w/docx testing (Joel)
    • ACTION: Send out reminder about next QA call (Day of previous call, a few days ahead, then the day-of) (Robinson)
    • 4.3 broken on XP? (Joel)
      • Some versions of Visual Studio can't compile anymore for WinXP (Florian R.)

    Bugzilla Versions:

    • Is it time to hide the 4.1 pre-release versions? (Joel)
      • Probably yes (Robinson)
      • ACTION: Will hide them (Joel)
    • What about adding a 'pre-bibisect' version? (Anything that predates our bibisect repo can be tossed in that catch-all)
      • Might re-name '3.5.0 Beta0' for the purpose...
      • ACTION: Joel will add/repurpose
    • What about version "(See in Summary)" ? (Joel?)
      • I believe that was from our hackish implementation for Impress Remote bugs (Robinson)
      • Used for LO bugs as well (so good to get rid of it) (Joel)

    PENDING ITEM: Auto-updates for regular users and QA Testing

    • ACTION: Investigate auto-updates for regular users and/or for QA/testing purposes (Robinson)
      • Investigate possible PPA for this purpose
    • On Windows: Click Once Application (C# specific??) (Florian R.)
      • Can do something similiar w/the SI-GUI (but uses a few clicks)
      • How easy to turn that into a 1-click installer? (Robinson)
        • Doable, but harder to do correctly (Florian R.)
    • At any one time I have 15+ builds installed; find the SI-GUI not as useful for my QA/triage work (Stuart)
    • Bibisect is a cheap way of storing thousands of builds (in, say, 8GB) (Joel)
    • Had problem on April 30(?) with broken Windows tb's for 4 days (Stuart)
      • Kendy wasn't sure what went wrong -- turns out it was some obscure problem w/a reserved-keyword problem
      • Not sure how bibisect would help out in this situation
    • Importance of having quickly-updated Bibisect repo vs. just a PPA? (Robinson)
      • PPA of master branch isn't bad, but needs to be there for Mac and Windows as well (Joel)
    • Auto-updates for users is probably an entirely separate tech solution than our QA solution (Robinson)
    • Let's take this discussion to the mailing list (Joel)
      • ACTION: Open discussion again re:auto-update for QA on the mailing list (Robinson)
        • (Will Bjoern/Norbert be convinced that daily bibisect repo is a good idea? :-)
    • Possibly chat w/Mozilla about how their updater works? (Joel)

    PENDING ITEM: MozTrap Localization

    • ACTION: MozTrap translation (GUI and tests) continues to be high-priority for QA (Needs someone to shepherd)

    To review:

      • Other project who might want to work on translating GUI w/us?

    PENDING ITEM: Bugzilla Migration etc.

    Future (PUNTING until after bugzilla migration complete):

    • ACTION: Robinson will talk to other orgs that deploy Bugzilla about implementing (funding?) OpenID support
    • ACTION: Get Tollef to activate voting on FDO (merged item)
    • ACTION: Get Tollef to add BOLD statement to each FDO mail sent out to not reply via mail (merged item)
    • ACTION: Get Tollef to clarify 'version' label in Bugzilla (merged item)
    • ACTION: Will track the filed bug and wait to hear updates (re: Bold statement on FDO mail)
    • Coordinate our ongoing work on the QA Mailing List

    PENDING ITEM: Bibisect Repositories

    • ACTION: Make combined bibisect repo available for testing (Bjoern) + Provide better docs
    • ACTION: Provide documentation for mac bibisect on wiki (Bjoern)
      • Bjoern's done some work here... get update from him.

    To review:

    • IDEA: Add bibisect into regular Developer workflow
    • IDEA: Create graph/tool to show which builds contain a given commit
    • ACTION: Chat w/Bjoern, etc... re: updates to bibisect repos (Robinson)

    PENDING ITEM: GUI for Bibisect

    • ACTION:' Florian R. will make bibisect-gui work on Ubuntu....with Joel
    • ACTION Review BibiGUI -- any Windows/C# Python volunteer dev (Bjoern)


    • ACTION: SI-GUI: Contact the people running "interesting" Windows tinderboxes and ask for their assistance (Florian R.)
    • We found someone who was interested in working on GUI in Python, but haven't heard back recently (Florian R.)
      • C# version is running just fine on Windows
    • Perhaps Java is a good compromise for now (Joel)
    • If we're headed towards greater bibisect use for the QA Team, I could perhaps spend some more time hacking-in this bit in Python (Robinson)
      • ACTION: Throw something at me if I forget... (Florian R.)
    • Perhaps GSoC project for 2015 (SI-GUI/Bibisect GUI) --> grab Florian R. as the mentor (Joel)
      • Would just need some transformation from one language to another one (C# -> Python/Java/whatever)

    PENDING ITEM: Feedback pages

    • ACTION: Sophie will shepherd native-lang versions of Feedback page

    To review:

    • Next steps for NL versions (bug #?)

    PENDING ITEM: EOL, Release series, and Stable versions

    • ACTION: We'll wait and see if the Fresh vs. Stable (esque) language ends up in the updater (Robinson)
      • May 5th - Punting to see until updater is fixed
    • There's been a bit of discussion about this on marketing
    • In QA we've been encouraging users to use Fresh builds
      • If someone wants to be involved in the process of fixing bugs, we might encourage them to even test beta/alpha builds, but caution against production use
    • Would be nice for QA to talk w/one voice here (Joel)
      • Likes what Canonical does w/releases of Ubuntu
      • Don't think names are going to change
    • Discuss Fresh vs. Stable (and related plans) w/Marketing: In-person call or mailing list? (Joel)
      • Probably get talking points down on mailing list, then we can have a chat in person if desired (Robinson)
      • ACTION: Joel will start a thread on the QA list where we can bring up concerns

    PENDING ITEM: Start Center and Sidebar Concerns

    • [DONE] ACTION: If you try to use LibreOffice without a mouse (and using a screen reader), how is the experience? (Everyone)
      • Let's try to connect with the Accessibility Team more...

    Relevant tracker bugs:

    • Everything is doing pretty well on the Start Center and Start Panel (Stuart)
      • Recent Documents implemented properly
      • Many issues resolved
    • Template manager has a few a11y problems (re: keyboard nav)
      • But mostly being addressed
    • Good to blog about this (Joel)

    PENDING ITEM: Planning Regular QA Events

    • [SUPERSEDED] ACTION: Joel will come up with a timeframe for future Bug Hunting Sessions/Triage Contests, with rationale.
      • Let's try to have an event every 6 months
    • ACTION: Create a wiki page that mirrors our Release Plan page to try to coordinate QA events in conjunction with our release cycle (Joel)

    PENDING ITEM: Daily builds for all platforms

    • ACTION: Robinson will take point on making sure we get daily builds for win/mac/linux
    • Working on NAGIOS rules to make sure that these builds are produced (Robinson)
    • Plan only to do this for TDF-run tbs
      • Probably SPAM cloph (or other owner?) and me (Robinson)
    • Should touch-base with tb owners to see if they'd be willing to get SPAMmed here (Stuart)

    • What about global TODO lists? (across various TDF/LibreOffice teams) (Joel)
      • Perhaps something available via Redmine? Or a project management tool? (Robinson)

    Long-term/Frozen Pending Items

    These are long-term or frozen items (i.e. on ice until something else happens) that we don't want to forget about...

    PENDING ITEM: Update the whiteboard/keywords page

    • ACTION: Joel will work on tdf#71761 - Cleanup Whiteboard Wiki Page slowly.
    • Would love help! (Joel)

    PENDING ITEM: Most Annoying Bug List

    • ACTION: Joel will propose stricter guidelines for what qualifies as a MAB

    To review:

    • How is the test going? (using the 'Priority' field in Bugzilla)


    • Would also love help! (Joel)
    • MAB list will go away, it's just a matter of time... (Joel)
    • Think our process is pretty democratic -- usually ok (Stuart)

    PENDING ITEM: What to do with FDO bugs filed against Extensions, Templates


    • Wonder if Redmine is really the best place for these bug reports (Robinson)
      • but given our current (broken) handling policy for Extension bugs, happy to have these off QA's plate
    • ACTION: Joel will update our docs for how to report Extension bugs

    PENDING ITEM: Talk to CS Department/others at University

    • ACTION: Put up a message on the message board at his University and see who is interested (Joel)
    • Will continue to chat (and hope to get more responses)

    PENDING ITEM: Hackfests

    • ACTION: USA involvement in hackfests -- (Keep on the agenda, discuss on QA list) (All)

    Update on:

    • Potential Hackfest in Boston in July
      • State of QA Documentation?
    • Other Events: (School in Pennsylvania)?
    • Would like to hear more back from Charlie R. and our other contacts (Joel)
    • Joel & Robison will talk about the upcoming Boston Hackfest (Kohei == possible?)
      • ACTION: Joel & Robinson will chat about Boston

    New Action Items

    All items proposed between meetings go here

    New Items (Proposed/Discussed at the Meeting)

    NEW ITEM: Title (Author)


    • ANNOUNCEMENT: Our next meeting will take place... May 19th (Monday) at 18:30 UTC, unless otherwise noted on the QA/Mailing List -- possibly rescheduled!


    Put meeting-adjourned time in the table


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