QA/Meetings/2014/July 30

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    Meeting of the QA Team

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    Date and Time (UTC) 2014-07-30 17:30 UTC
    G+ Hangout
    Chair Robinson Tryon
    Secretary Robinson Tryon





    Robinson, Joel, Bjoern, Florian, Jay, Stuart

    Talkyoo Room Number 537138


    Agenda + Minutes


    Content from the meeting itself ("the minutes") will be displayed in blue boxes like this.

    Before we Start

    A few minutes before we officially start the call, we'll try to have a few people on hand to help assist newbies set up their teleconferencing gear, get things muted, and log on to all of our communication channels:


    Put start time and attendees list in the table

    IRC Minutes

    (Meeting will be in Talkyoo)

    The State of QA

    Including any Opening Discussion

    • xx- Bugzilla migration
      • Updates...
      • Re: need to reset passwords
        • Email notification ahead of migration
        • Tweak the change-password page and the front page to indicate that people will need to reset their passwords
        • Create an 'About our new Bugzilla' video as a part of our 'Intro to QA' series
    • Bugzilla:
      • SUGGESTION: Use to host Bugzilla
      • We can have both LibreOffice and some of the Document Liberation Project libraries all exist as top-level products in the bugtracker
    • QUESTION: Should we refocus ourselves as the TDF QA Team (to cover LibreOffice, DLP, etc.. ?)
    • Boston Hackfest happened
      • Mmeeks, Joel, Robinson, Algot, Immanuel, etc..
      • Had Inkscape developer (Martin) show up
      • Got some ideas for the next one
        • Some hurdles with directions to venue (hard to find)
        • Investigate lodging closer to venue
      • Big thanks to Xamarin and Michael's brother for hosting us!
    • ACTION: Send thank-yous to Xamarin and Michael's brother (Joel)
    • Use 'hackfest' name for next event? Perhaps look at alternative names (Joel)
      • But want to make sure to attract devs (Bjoern)
    • Make sure that we're clear about the purpose of the hackfest ahead of time (Joel)
    • Going to have an event in Seattle in October (Robinson)
      • Aiming to build up community enough so that in the future, local people can run similar events on their own
      • Head-off issues at the event by having a quick 5 minute talk at the beginning of the event about how to handle complaints in Bugzilla/on the user lists (Bjoern)

    weekly status


    UNCONFIRMED bug count:

    • July 16thd: 962
    • Today: 712
    • Difference: -250
    • ACTION: Joel will come up with strategies (bloggers? other marketing?) to get us under 500 UNCONFIRMED over the summer (by the end of August)
    • Many bugs that went UNCONFIRMED -> NEEDINFO were moved to REOPENED, so Joel is working on fixing those
    • How do we avoid new QA people getting lost in 'hard' UNCONFIRMED bugs that they aren't going to be able to attack? (Robinson)
      • One idea: query for 'expected behavior' (Bjoern)
      • I am seeing more and more bugs in 'UNCONFIRMED' that require specific hardware, proprietary software, a developer's input, etc.. (Joel)
    • What should we do with bugs that have been confirmed on a single system, but nobody else can reproduce, even after multiple attempts? (Joel)
    • What about bugs requiring proprietary applications/etc.. do we close those? (Joel)
      • Similar to dealing with confidential documents: If you can't share it, then we won't fix it (Bjoern)
        • Refer them to how the Linux kernel deals with proprietary drivers
    • Any proprietary software that relates to filters in the source (for MS-Office, Visio, Project, etc..) is probably something we should try to investigate (Robinson)
    • 'Enterprise' software?
      • Something to consider re: what we can triage

    Regression watch (Bjoern)

    • ACTION: Joel will dig through bibisected and regressions confirmed bugs and prioritize according to flowchart
    • Some new people joining-in with bibisecting (Joel)

    Topics for ESC?

    Does anyone have any topics/concerns that I should bring to the Engineering Steering Committee (ESC)? (Robinson)

    • Nothing big
    • We've seen many more bibisected regressions, and devs are tackling more regressions, so QA is helping quite a bit (Bjoern)
      • Important for writer devs to make sure that we're dealing with new regressions first

    needAdvice Bugs

    needAdvice bugs

    • Previous counts: 80+, 32, 32, 29, 23
    • Please continue to shovel difficult bugs into this list (Robinson)

    Pending Items

    PENDING ITEM: Auto-updates for regular users and QA Testing

    • ACTION: Investigate auto-updates for regular users and/or for QA/testing purposes (Robinson)
    • ACTION: Open discussion again re:auto-update for QA on the mailing list (Robinson)
      • Related: tdf#78592 - "LibreOffice-Installation enhancement/medium NEW UI: Provide RSS feed for torrent downloads" (Joel)
    • ACTION: Bring up proposal to use Mozilla updater tooling for LibreOffice (Robinson)
    • Two questions that arise: (Robinson)
      • Should we provide non-stable versions via updater?
      • Should we make it easier to update (automatically?) from one build to the next?
    • Auto-updates is an enterprise feature -- will a volunteer do it for free? (Bjoern)
    • What about the GUI?
    • What about users on Ubuntu (or another distro) who want to track 'LibreOffice Fresh'? (Robinson)
    • What about a PPA that tracks 'LibreOffice Stable' ?
      • Under consideration... (Bjoern)
      • Waiting to hear from LibreOffice Marketing about name change for 'Stable'

    PENDING ITEM: Bugzilla Migration etc.

    • ACTION: Organize time to stress-test new Bugzilla VM (Joel)
    • ACTION: Make sure to suppress outgoing email during our testing of the test Bugzilla (Robinson)
    • ACTION: Perhaps add Simple HTTP Auth (htaccess) control restricting access to (Robinson/Norbert)
    • ACTION: Resolve url for hosting our Bugzilla instance (Joel)
      • Deal with acronym if using url (tdf# ?)
    • ACTION: Set up call and/or thread(s) with the useful people on a mailing list (Robinson)
      • May 22 - Started process
      • June - Need to follow-up again with key people re: current progress (Robinson)

    PENDING ITEM: Bibisect Repositories

    • ACTION: Chat w/Bjoern, etc... re: updates to bibisect repos (Robinson)
      • Propose docs on testing w/3.3.0 separately to place bugs in pre-LO category (Robinson)
    • ACTION: Provide documentation for mac bibisect on wiki (Norbert)
      • Perhaps ask Cloph for help re: Bibisect stuff, and keep Norbert's cycles free for Bugzilla migration

    To review:

    • IDEA: Add bibisect into regular Developer workflow
    • IDEA: Create graph/tool to show which builds contain a given commit

    PENDING ITEM: GUI for Bibisect

    • ACTION: Review BibiGUI -- any Windows/C# Python volunteer dev (Bjoern)
      • June 19 - Joel may have found a volunteer?
    • ACTION: Create an EasyHack a bug for the process of rewriting the existing C# code in Python (or Java) (Florian R.)
    • ACTION: Joel will poke the new guy again on email that showed up with dev experience


    • ACTION: SI-GUI: Contact the people running "interesting" Windows tinderboxes and ask for their assistance (Florian R.)

    PENDING ITEM: Hackfests

    • ACTION: Check on status of LibreOffice building in the cloud for hackfests (Robinson)
      • Included in the notes for hackfest planning

    Update on:

    • We had one, it was interesting (see notes above)

    PENDING ITEM: Whiteboard Naming Conventions

    • ACTION: Update tags in the whiteboard to use 'wimpyCaps' (ALL)
    • Also continue to clarify the use of capitals in the whiteboard, etc..
    • Haven't heard complaints from QA or Devs
    • Let's go ahead and use this extensively
    • We'll talk about "filter:svg" stuff in the whiteboard after the call (in IRC)

    Long-term/Frozen Pending Items

    These are long-term or frozen items (i.e. on ice until something else happens) that we don't want to forget about...

    PENDING ITEM: MozTrap Localization

    • ACTION: MozTrap translation (GUI and tests) continues to be high-priority for QA (Needs someone to shepherd)

    To review:

    • Other project who might want to work on translating GUI w/us?

    PENDING ITEM: Feedback pages

    • ACTION: Sophie will shepherd native-lang versions of Feedback page

    To review:

    • Next steps for NL versions (bug #?)

    PENDING ITEM: US Merch Store

    • (Future progress)

    PENDING ITEM: Most Annoying Bug List

    • ACTION: Joel will propose stricter guidelines for what qualifies as a MAB

    To review:

    • How is the test going? (using the 'Priority' field in Bugzilla)


    PENDING ITEM: Talk to CS Department/others at University

    • ACTION: Put up a message on the message board at his University and see who is interested (Joel)
      • Need to meet w/Charlie R. to talk with his Uni contacts as well

    New Action Items

    All items proposed between meetings go here

    NEW ITEM: Discuss usefulness of QA project in Redmine (Bjoern)

    NEW ITEM: QA Budget (Bjoern)

    Some ideas for our possible QA Budget

    • Host bibisect repo in the cloud -- use VNC to connect
      • Testing builds in the cloud @ the Boston Hackfest -- good for 1-off testing, but slow for 10 bibisects in a row (Robinson)
      • Perhaps a good target for onboarding (Bjoern)
        • Makes things run very quickly, get people hooked
      • We can spin-up a new machine for each person we're onboarding
    • Daily builds (also in the cloud?)
    • SDK tutorial?
      • Get python community interested in LibreOffice
      • Python IDE support for creating LibreOffice extensions?
        • Can be beneficial for both communities
      • Need to find someone in Python community to help move this forward
    • Hackfest hardware
      • Especially helpful when we don't have good bandwidth/stable connection
    • Other items
      • Crash reporter for Windows
      • Moztrap improvements
        • Ask sophie about a solid proposal for what could be done
      • Native-lang BSA for more projects
        • Biggest hurdle is getting native-lang communities to sign-up for long-term commitment to deal with bug reports (Robinson)

    New Items (Proposed/Discussed at the Meeting)

    NEW ITEM: description (your name)


    • ANNOUNCEMENT: Our next meeting will take place... July 30th (Wednesday) at 17:30 UTC, unless otherwise noted on the QA/Mailing List.


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